LAYS (Pepsi Co) Complaints - Lays includes PIG FATS (EyeOpener)

Are you sure it wasn't one of those bulk SPAM emails?

No it wasnt spam.
http://www.food-info.net/uk/e/e631.htm

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090507022026AAxRZ2j

http://www.foodfigures.com/food_additive/E631_Disodium-inosinate_260.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_inosinate

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_E631_Halal

Please go through these links .

All we want from pepsi co is to show what is the origin of e631 is it from Pigs or from sardines.

Well no answer any where so unless any explaination we must not eat it.

if you just spend 30 minutes searching by youself just about e631 you will be on some conclusion.

All this is a Taliban effort to stop us from having the bouties of Allah aur Allah Ta'laa ki nematon ko thukranay ka gunah ap jantay hon ge.
Don't just start running with the herd, Internet is not the ultimate Muslim Mifti that we have to do whatever net and emails tell us.
Have a life dudes... !!!

Yeah rite. Its Taliban movement and I'd request the sensible lot to ignore these crap emails and internet for deciding halal and haram.
Use your own resources, ye na ho kal ap namaz bi internet pe parh rahay hon !
Forget it

Allah Pak ke nematoon main lays nahi ata bro.Fruits ,vegetables,water,rice wheat ,flour nature, rain ,weather ,parents these are Allah ke namtain.not lays with pig fats.
This is no taliban crap they are busy killing ppls and i hate them as much as any patriotic pakistany muslim can.

You dont trust internet good enough USE YOUR OWN RESOURCES.
Atleast for once do use them resources.And if you found something usefull do share them with everyone.

ok then. lets suppose u r right and me wrong, then STOP using

TOOTH PASTE,
SHAVING CREAM
CHEWING GUM,
CHOCOLATE,
SWEETS,
BISCUITS,
CORN FLAKES, TOFFEES,
CANNED FOODS,
FRUIT TINS,

and then come back to us and say I have done it and I recommend it. Then we'll think of doing it too. don't just say it for the sake of saying it. DO IT and share with us
We'll wait anxiously
Good luck dude

Brother you are so defensive for lays chips .....do you work for them........just kidding.
Dude thing is very simple there are too many companies in market and they are selling to many products under different brand names some of them are using prohibited ingrediants and some of them are not.
Simply try to avoide products which have ingrediants with E code instead use those which dont have this crap in them or if you have to use E code items then atleast know from what theyve bin made of.
All the products which you told me not to use are available without pigfats.And i enjoy using them as many others do.

Guys, Lays in Pakistan is known as Walkers crisps in the UK. A few years ago it was discovered that Walkers Cheese & Onion crisps, which most vegetarians were eating actually contained Gelatine, which generally speaking contains PIG but could contain other animal products. Surprisingly at the same time it was discovered that Smokey Bacon flavoured crisps, which were ignored by vegetarians, did NOT contain any Gelatine!!! After loads of complaints from vegetarians and other consumer groups, the law was changed and Walkers crisps (as well as other food items), now tell the consumer, with writing on the packaging whether it is suitable for vegetarians.
So walkers (or Lays) has a history of such under handed practices. In the UK the power of the consumer agencies got the practices changed. In Pakistan, there is no consumer protection, so I will not be surprised if what the original message suggested turned out to be true.
The only way such companies listen is when they are hot where it matters, THE POCKET. So unless the Pakistani consumer is prepared to take mass action and starts to boycott certain products, even if it is for a short period of time, no company will ever take notice. The success of this website, although well intended is also dependent on the consumers boycotting certain products, otherwise, no number of complaints either here or elsewhere will have any effect on manufacturers and companies, as their sales figures will not be effected.
Remember all companies review their sales figures and make projections if not on a weekly basis then certainly on a monthly basis. So a boycott of a product just for a short period of time can have a major effect. These are tried and trusted methods from the UK and the USA, so they do work.

Here is extracts from the LAYs USA site

http://www.fritolay.com/your-health/seasoned-products-made-without-porcine-enzymes.html

"Most cheese is made using enzymes as part of the process to develop unique flavors, and depending on the flavor, enzyme sources may include vegetable, microbial and/or animal. Pork enzymes may be used in the milk that makes the real cheese for some of our cheese seasonings.

For those in the U.S. choosing to restrict pork-related ingredients from their diet, the Frito-Lay products included here do not contain pork enzymes. Another guide that may be helpful is the list of Kosher products which may also be found on this website."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay%27s#Pork%20Enzymes

Some Frito-Lay brand seasoned products, including some flavors of Lay's, contain pork enzymes in addition to herbs, cheese and other seasonings. Frito-Lay's web site[1] states that they use enzymes from pigs (porcine enzymes) in some of their seasoned snack chip products to develop 'unique flavors'. The presence of pig-derived ingredients makes them haraam for Muslims to eat. Spotlight Halal has compiled a list of Lay's flavor varieties[2] to identify which Lay's flavor varieties contain pork enzymes.

HI IMA M HASSAN BUKHARI HOU ARE YOU SO KOLD ME NOTIFTATION & LOL ZEESHAN ANSARI & KALEEM IS VERY OLD BOY JAJAJAJA HAHHHAAH H

*sighs* Gentlemen....and oh ladies too!!! Lays is consumed in UAE, Malaysia and other Muslim countries too. These are countries where I would consider finding TRUE PROPER muslims as compared to Pakistan. *true spite intended here* YET, the protests of Lays chips spring up only in Pakistan....either from spam msgs or other elements waiting to destroy a brand. I agree with Syed M: if this was the case, then stop using toothpaste and otherr poducts as well. Dude, Mc Donalds is origionally a "hamburger" so why do we eat it then here in Pakistan? Why is Mc Donalds even present in the holy city? Simple, because even if in the USA the burgers contain ham, other regions have localized their stratigies while using the franchise license. Same case of KFC using genitically engineered chickens vs Pakistan using live farm chickens. But as the old saying goes..........ONLY IN PAKISTAN!!!!!

Pakistanis are unfortunate that they don't have any consumer court that is easily reachable and the nation is under dark clouds of corruption.
But, for this Pakistanis themselves are VERY MUCH RESPONSIBLE. They only complain, instaed of boycotting such products. They should come on road and ask for consumer courts.
After all, what is your country's Supreme court for? Ask them for Justice and give consumer courts in no time.

This is all a propaganda of the mullah's

I don not agree with this....this is just another false propaganda of the taliban which has spread across our illiterate nation because Lays is an american company. Lays is manufactured in Pakistan and no material comes from abroad.

Malik, why is this that any such thing comes in and we say that it is because of Taliban?

Do you think that if Taliban has such propaganda power then wouldn't they try to present themselves in a more appropriate way? Why do we close our eyes from the bitter realities that it is the west and US who are showing us what they want is right and what's wrong?

Always non-vegetarian

E120 Cochineal

Can be produced from both vegetarian and non-vegetarian sources

E104** Quinoline Yellow
E160a(ii)** Alpha-, beta-, gamma carotene (may be held in gelatine matrix)
E161(g) Canthaxanthin
E252 Potassium Nitrate
E270* Lactic Acid
E304(i) Ascorbyl Palmitate
E304(ii) Ascorbyl Stearate
E322* Lecithin (may be made from battery eggs)
E325* Sodium Lactate
E326* Potassium Lactate
E327* Calcium Lactate
E422 Glycerol/Glycerin
E431 Polyoxyethylene (40) stearate
E432 Polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan monolaurate
E433 Polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan mono-oleate
E434 Polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan monopalmitate
E435 Polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan monostearate
E436 Polyoxyethylene (20) sorbitan tristearate
E442 Ammonium Phosphatides
E445 Glyceryl esters of wood rosin
E470(a) Sodium, potassium and calcium salts of fatty acids
E470(b) Magnesium salts of fatty acids
E471 Mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(a) Acetic acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(b) Lactic acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(c) Citric acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(d) Tartaric acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(e) Mono- and di-acetyl tartaric acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E472(f) Mixed acetic and tartaric acid esters of mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E473 Sucrose esters of fatty acids
E474 Sucroglycerides
E475 Polyglycerol esters of fatty acids
E476 Polyglycerol esters of polycondensed fatty acids of caster oil
E477 Propane-1,2-diol esters of fatty acids
E479(b) Thermally oxidised soya bean oil interacted with mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids
E481 Sodium stearoyl-2-lactylate
E482 Calcium stearoyl-2-lactylate
E483 Stearyl tartrate
E491 Sorbitan monostearate
E492 Sorbitan tristearate
E493 Sorbitan monolaurate
E494 Sorbitan mono-oleate
E495 Sorbitan monopalmitate
E570 Stearic acid
E585 Ferrous Lactate
E631 Sodium 5'-inositate
E635 Sodium 5'-ribonucleotides
E640 Glycine and its sodium salt
E920 L-cysteine and L-cysteine hydrochloride
E966 Lactitol
E1105 Lysozyme (made from eggs)
E1518 Glycerol mono-, di- and tri-acetate

All other E Numbers are to the best of our knowledge always vegetarian

E numbers marked * may theoretically be made in a non vegetarian version, but are practically always suitable

E numbers marked ** are not themselves non vegetarian but may be carried in a gelatine carrier especially when used in liquids

Well said Kashif.........
Persons like jude allen who thinks in there stuffed mind that only true Muslims live elsewhere and malik sb who is more literate are the reasons either they are extremely positive or else they dont know nothing and they misguide others too imagine taliban going against lays wow what a crap.
nobody is complaining Mcdonald or KFC open your eyes and use your brain if you have one.

Yahood-o-Nasara are awlays untrustworthy... So buying from them is always risky. We can eat local chips brand or even handmade french fries rather than eating Lays which may contain things that are restricted in your religion.

Drinks and food that you'll eat in heaven will be more testful than what lays give you. This life is so short and we surely have to return to Allah one day. Why would we eat a less testful thing in such a temporary span of life when we have surity to have everything in heaven. Remember, heaven can be earned only when you make Allah tala Raazi otherwise there is a hell waiting for you.

Pepsi has issued halal certificate and it is attached on all shops already

hahahahahah...I loved Mushhood Muhammad's comments "Drinks and food that you'll eat in heaven will be more (testful) than what lays give you........." hahahahahah I rest my case guys. Its Obvious whos more stuffed in their minds now.......hahahah this one is just too funny.
Yes I also suppose the "virgins" will also be available in Heaven right Mr. Mushood?? Or perhaps it you mis understood...Perhaps it was food made with "Virgin Oil"....LoL:) Guys shut it please!! Lays is all cool...but if you wana protest on the streets about Lays, hey, dont leme stop you. Wind up the Talibans too and go protest that Lays is haram and cause a riot, burn busses too...thats all you guys can do :p
Im taking a break - Im going to have some Pepsi and Lays. in other word...Im going to PIG OUT!!!!

Dear all, you can visit Wikiepedia and confirm that the main origin (source) of E631 is pig and some fish too. The paragraph below is copied from Wikiepedia
'"Disodium inosinate (E631), chemical formula C10H11N2Na2O8P, is the disodium salt of inosinic acid. It is a food additive often found in instant noodles, potato chips, and a variety of other snacks. It is used as a flavor enhancer, in synergy with monosodium glutamate (also known as MSG; the sodium salt of glutamic acid) to provide the umami taste. It is mainly found in animals like pigs and fish.""

Please read: "Disodium inosinate (E631), ......It is mainly found in animals like pigs and fish.""
It doesnt say "ONLY found in pigs and fish" does it? As corrupt as any Pakistani can ever possibly get, there are halal certification bodies in Pakistan that take a product into its detailed testing phase, develop an MSDS - Material Safety Data Sheet after lab testing. makeup brushes are also mainly obtained from pigs, so are lipstick ingredients - please stop getting so paranoid - Have you ever considered other products that DO NOT mention the codes on the back of their pack? How can you certif that the ingredients are safe/halal?? What certification can YOU offer for that? How less HARAM (flithy) is the beef we consume? How less filthy is the outside food we consume from the streets hawkers? Isnt FILTH considered to be HARAM? or perhaps that is acceptable as compared to pig? I need answers - just for my curious satisfaction because I could be wrong here. Till then, its all fundamentalist hypocrisy.

...and please.....im NOT taking any sides here. I hate Pepsi - Prefer Coke to it. and if anyone remembers the Pepsi bottling case where fake Pepsi was being made available in the local markets...I just dont take a chance. I usually have coke - that too...the imported can. (lets hope it doesnt contain pig fat) I just make sure to wash the can from the top or insert a straw. Lets view brands with an open mind instead of drawing our own conclusions. We need to start thinking outside the box or we will remain where we are i.e. THIRD WORLD!!! Lets learn from India and China and Japan establish our own identity which we do not have at the moment.

Lays from Pepsi should be avoided as much as possible. Ok ... as you said that it is not haram, fine but what do you say that Pepsi also doesn't advertise that Lays has some disadvantages associated with it?

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_guanylate) :
"Disodium guanylate is not safe for babies under twelve weeks, and should generally be avoided by asthmatics and people with gout, as guanylates are metabolized to purines [1]. Since it is often produced from fish, vegans and vegetarians may wish to avoid it unless the product is specifically labelled Vegan/Vegetarian. Such labels require the use of non-animal derived sources, such as seaweed or yeast."

*sighs* so which babies do you know or have seen recently eating Lays chips?? as for seaweed or yeast, whats wrong with that? Sushi is wrapped with seaweed and bread os made from yeast. DUH!!! I give up arguing with ou guys......I stand tall with my ending statement...ONLY IN PAKISTAN!!!!

Its my lunch break and Im going to ONLY eat some Lays chips and share it with my other office staff. :P hahahahahahahahaha

Jude here is what is going on some peacefull mature people are trying to discuss a matter of importance which relates to there religion in a peaceful manner where every one is sharing his own knowledge same as you.
every one has the right for freedom of expression and others must respect that which you dont respect as you did with(mushood muhammad) comment Yeah picking up a spelling mistake and making fun of it is preety mature you must be proud of yourself.
every person envolve in this conversation has his own opinion no one is forcing anyone to do this and dont do that its an open forum.You except what you think right and dont except whats in your opinion is wrong.
Now india japan and china are not majority muslim countries but still they are better aware of ther eating.Unfortunately you belongs to third world so you dont want matters to be resloved through talk /debate or silent protest because certainly this is not the way to resolve matters in THIRD WORLD rather what you want is that every one has to be on roads they must burn bulidings buses and ppls and they must create anarchy and mayhem so that you sit on your couch and drink your coke with lays and enjoy live coverage on some yellow TV channel and then you will shout yes THIRD WORLD Rocks.
wake up and try to think out of the imported can when you finish your lunch...........
PS:
FYI
Anyone belongs to Pakistan is a PAKISTANI and this the identity.
And i am proud to be one :)

یہ لوگ تو کہتے کہ کہ یہ حلال ہے ؟؟؟ اب واللہُ عالم ۔۔

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3348/lays.jpg

Give me a break.... Every time, same story, so many medicines use ingredients from so called Haram- watz the big deal. In this case, the most credible source on earth Wikipedia is referred! Muslims hoash kay naakhun lo...Apni conduct aur behaviour ko correct karo instead of going into needless hoax mongering

یہ سو فیصد حرام ہے ۔ حرام ہے ۔ لیز والوں نے جامعہ اشرفییہ کاجعلی سند بھی استعمال کیا ہے ۔ یہ لوگ جھوٹے ہے ۔ یہ سو فیصر حرام ہے ۔ پلیزز پیارے مسلم بھائیوں اسس سے پرہیز کرو ۔۔

Media, both new and traditional have been emphasizing on just one report by some Muslim doctor in the West. I question the authenticity of the report. Does one report by some anonymous individual has more weightage than several proof certificates of registration, verification by the Pepsi-Cola International Pakistan (Private) Limited?
Is the stated research and the arguments presented in its favour based on truth or is it mere propaganda?

How true is this halal haram debate? Is the debater aware of the encoding process and the nature of ingredients? And if yes, can he/she actually prove and counter-attack the several reports presented to prove the ‘guilt-free’ ingredient?

The Pepsi Cola International says in its media report: We assure our consumers and customers that Lays Snacks Pakistan uses only 100% Halal ingredients in all its food products. Pakistan Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (PCSIR), an established government body, has verified that Lays is free of all animal meat fat (i.e. it only contains vegetable fats). Jamia Ashrafia of Pakistan has also declared Lays as 100% Halal. E631 is also certified by the raw material supplier, as well as the Central Islamic Committee of Thailand, as Halal (and the latter has also specifically endorsed the use of the legend “Halal” for such flavor).

I expect the respected members of this forum to come forward and exhibit their logical and practical thinking. I would .on my part like to shed light on the economic consequences of this false propaganda circulating about the Lays chips and its ingredients all around.

Pepsi Cola international says in its media statement: Lays Snacks are sold in many other Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE and Malaysia. In Pakistan, we employ over 1000 people in the fields of agriculture, production and distribution and are contributing to various social causes like education and health.

Let’s speak about Pakistan first. 1000 employees mean 1000 families. If this baseless debate keeps on circulating will not the future of these 1000 families be at stake? Of course labour makes the most important part of any organization and it is the labour who suffers in the end if and when work stops. Can a developing country like ours, already at the verge of bankruptcy with weak economic indicators afford such a mass level of unemployment?

And to speak of the Muslim world, where Lays chips is the number one brand with a huge distribution and consumption and a large work force in different capacities, will not such rumours bring down the already withering state of economy?

And on what cost? Rumours, falsehood and unauthentic sources.

Think.

Thank you Zara. Perhaps now the (wise men) on this forum will understand and not develop an inferiority complex when I ask them to think "outside the box".

btw, I must add a little recipe of my own: Lays (any flavor) when mixed with Mr. Potato Slims .....awsome!!! Goes well with 7up and lime :)

Ok I agreed at least once some one had replied logically (zara). This is what is required everyone here is in pursuit of truth .Truth could have been harsh for us Muslims if Pepsi really is using pig fats and on the other hand all of this could have been a big blunder.
Lets suppose we don’t agree with the research of an anonymous doctor but fact stands there that E631 is produced through three different sources (this is not a Rumor, falsehood or unauthentic).
1. Pig fats
2. Bacterial fermentation of sugars
3. Fish (sardines)
From the list First one is unacceptable (even if it cost more then thousands) .And please no one had said that ok they are using pig fats lets burn them or lets protest to close them right, What I understand all the (wise men) are using a forum to understand what exactly is going on. Now if lays is using any option from remaining two I don’t see any reason of arguing on it, but if they are using first one I wouldn’t be wrong saying that no Muslim would like to eat a pig.
Now how much does it cost on printing at the packing of lays chips with already printed E631 the exact origin (that would be #2 or #3) nothing I guess. In my personal opinion it would have been enough for me to eat it.
Now initially when some anonymous persons approached Pepsi they didn’t even bother to reply there queries .BUT when this issue was addressed through more population now they are throwing explanations and getting certificates WHY NOT EARLIER because they don’t give a crap and they think everyone here is sleeping and they will made them eat what ever crap they like,(By the way unfortunately in any country and especially in our country buying anyone or anything with money its not a big deal) I will not argue on this it will change the subject.
I hope you have understand what we are trying I am not against Pepsi or Lays and I have not seen any comments saying this and obviously no one wants more unemployment, (do you think Pepsi will close just for this matter…….. no never they are not going anywhere take the example of telenor they still have enormous potential to grow ) everyone is just trying to know, and I think that we must know what we are eating that’s all .We want that, giant companies with big brands must respect there customers in Pakistan by being truthful to them now its your decision if this is wrong or right.
(I hope i have disoppointed you yet again JA) :)

nnnnaaahhh dude!!! you can never disappoint me no matter how hard you try - Pakistan itself is such a MAJOR disappointment, you would have to re live your life trying to compete or trying to top that. I think the Lays issue is all settled Mr. Proud Pakistani. Best of luck in the next debates :)

Haram Haram Haram Haram

Firstly, I'm pretty neutral on this matter, but am intrigued by some of the discussions. Yes people are concerned but, at the end of the day unless you make something by yourself you are having to rely on someone else's word that what you are getting is Halaal. PepsiCo have been verified by many muslim organisations, so people should have the faith and accept that verification. If you still doubt them then simply dont buy their chips/crisps etc. Whats the big hassle?

Now Jude, Hey Jude! correct me if I'm wrong, but this is supposed to be a Pakistani Consumer website to address the issues Pakistani consumers have to deal with. I know I have been out of the country for a very long time, but I still doubt that Pakistan has changed to the extent that now Pakistani's are being called JUDE ALLEN. Not that your views are not welcomed or are that off the mark but you do take the derogatory tone in your messages. Why is that? Yes Pakistan has issues but then again which country does not? Jude Allen...sounds like a yank name but coould be a brit! Dont these countries have issues. Are Pakistan's issues more "MAJOR" then any other country's? Nah mate.......so if you wanna a constructive debate then be sensible and allow other peoples opinions as well rather then being dismissive of them.

I aint taking sides here but will comment that PepsiCo., has a history of mis-leading consumers with regards to their ingredients. They have done so in the UK as well as other countries. Not that Pepsico are the only company doing so, many others have been caught out as well by the more powerful consumer organisations of other countries. An example I gave earlier mentioned where their Bacon flavour crisps were suitable for vegetarians but Cheese & Onion crisps were not!!! Only consumer complaints in the UK got them to change their ingredients, so that now Cheese & Onion crisps are vegetarian.

Lets move on to other serious issues....like the KESC or PTCL and similar.

He says taking a deep sip of a ice cold Pepsi Cola that he prefers more than the Coca Cola!!!!!

For all of you out there who would like clearification from Lays. There is an Advertisement in sunday DAWN from Lays which includes facts and figures and some Islamic authentication agencies which exonorate Lays from allegations that they are including prohobited igredients to lays products. Here is my argument :
If LAYS is telling the truth, we must give them credit and end this blame game. If on the other hand they are lying to cover up their fault, not only they but the islamic agencies who have backed them will be on the receiving end on the Day of Jedgement before the Creater. Don't you guys think this is a logical argument I am advancing? Thanks

I TOTALLY agree with Jude Allen. U Rock J/A !!!!!
these guys are just fishing in pee =)

I loved the term "Pig Out" He hehehehee

All I wanna say is PIG OUT Dudes and start eating "Mr. Chips" hehehehehe
demand for lays will fall and we are gonna get it cheaper or at least on same price for years

By the way, yesterday I had a French Chees lays but it was not as delicious as it used to be. Seems like they've stop using the pig fat or in other words thay have 'pigged out'

Hey Jude... Try Lays French Cheese with Chaat masala and chilli sauce on it.

Dear Mr. (nameless) bolta consumer!!!

First of all I didn’t make any derogatory remarks that were less a person who, quoted: “Yahood-o-Nasara are awlays untrustworthy…..” That’s what got the whole thing started. He may be right, but are Pakistanis any less untrustworthy? I’m just stating the facts dude and I’m very open and upfront to the extent that I have not hidden my name and email on this forum. The fact is as you have stated: “You’ve been out of the country for a very long time” Most people living here for a very long time still are not in touch with reality of this place and YOU claim to know more? I suggest that once you start doing what I do – going where I have been and seeing what I have seen – once you learn to carry around on you a 9kg bullet proof vest while coordinating military aid shipments to war torn tribal areas and are exposed to the FILTH where our OWN people are directly responsible. Maybe then, you may be in a position to make such assumptions. So, welcome back to where ever you have come from. Wake up and smell the coffee buddy. Don’t make assumptions. Don’t point and say other countries have issues. That’s so typical to blame and point fingers. Pakistanis are living here in PAKISTAN. What Pakistanis have to do is accept, admit, own up and take corrective action in order to start being proud of their nation. It will take more than just English writing skills and some general assumptions …. like the way you assume JUDE ALLEN is American or Brit. LoL No dude, Pakistan doesn’t have to change to Jude Allen – It can remain Pakistan – but hey, let Pakistan become a proud, earned identity instead of its current deplorable state.

Question: Isn’t Pakistan a brand too? Or is it just a land where we can live off at our convenience, travel and stay away in other countries for long period of time, come back and say – Hey, we are proud Pakistanis (even though we have done NOTHING to improve our brand called Pakistan) It’s a shame really!!!

Jude
Being away from a place, or living away and visiting, does not mean that one is not aware of the situation in that place. Yes you may have seen "Filth" and whatever else with a 9kg of bullet proof vest, but does that make you an expert. Definitely NOT. I am well aware of the situation in Pakistan. I am well aware of the Proudness of Pakistan as a nation and Pakistanis as citizens. A lecture from is not required.
You come across as someone typical of the Yankie and brit news reporters from Pakistan. Who think cos they come and spend some time here and all of sudden able to judge the psyche of the Pakistani people. Your views are a typical illustration of how far you are off the mark. These qualities only come out in people under certain conditions. The earthquake in 2005 was a typical example of how the nation got together. Current operation in Northern Areas is another example!!

Yes Pakistan has problems, but so do most countries in the world, some are bigger then others, and some are created by others. Although you seem to dismiss (seems to be your thing to dismiss others views!!) my statement that "other countries have issues"! How naive can you be Jude, but still want to preach to others.

Most issues within Pakistan can trace their origin back to outside influence. That's not shifting the blame or not looking at ourselves, but that is a FACT.

Name me a country and I will give you the major issues they are facing. Pakistan is no different. Analyse the history of Pakistan and you will discover why certain issues are prevalent in the nation now.

Yes I may have lived abroad for a long time, and still share my residence in different places, but I still have more of an understanding of Pakistan and Pakistani people then you ever will, through your 9kg bullet proof vest and no doubt heavily armed security guards.

Pakistanis are no different, be it trustworthyness or anything you mention. Pakistanis are just the same as the people of any nation, albeit with local differences.

Pakistan is a Brand. Just like any country is. But if you know anything about Brand Management you will also know that Brand Management is a subjective and a management skill dependent on factors outside your control. One major factor in Brand Management is media management. Unfortunately, the world media is managed and controlled by a few elite people and it is not within their vested interest or agenda to promote Pakistan or for that matter Islam. It is in their interests, coincided with the agencies of foreign nations to malign not just Pakistan but also Islam. Pakistani media is still in its infancy and thus is not able to take a stand in favour of Pakistan. So as far as Brand of Pakistan is concerned it is a losing battle for Pakistan atleast for now.

You talk about assumptions I have apparently made about you, but then again that is exactly what you have done for me. You have assumed that just because I have lived away from Pakistan for a long time, I have no knowledge or right to comment on Pakistani affairs. Well buddy!, Mate!, Yaar, or whatever you prefer, I may not be an expert on the local issues but do have enough of knowledge to be able to comment on them, with confidence.

My comments on this particular issue were neutral. I did not take sides or dismiss anyone elses comments and views. Unlike yourself. But that would be typical of westerners. Preach free speech but dismiss anyone else's opinion if it differs from yours!! Hypocites.

I'm glad you think my English skills are good. I accept the compliment you give, although it must have hurt inside!!! My name is not hidden. A user name was to be chosen, and Bolta Consumer seemed pretty apt. You can call me John Smith, if you feel more comfortable with that. Or would you prefer something more typical of "us" people, maybe Osama. How would that effect my brand image!! My email has not been hidden, the site managers will no doubt have it with them just like yours. Another ignorant statement from you..hey dude...to borrow a word from your vocabulary.

I'll await your comeback with abated breath!

Jude, please do not respond to these loosrs people. You are right. Pakistani men have no thing to be proud about rite now because they sell their own pride just for money and do disgrace ful things just to prove they are better to women. This is not right place for women like us to be because we are treated soo very unfair but they got pride for nothing..by hte way, what work do You do jude?

Dear Mr (Less Less) J/A

Everyone here at this forum is Pakistani and Muslim .But you haven’t introduced yourself. Its not that no one other then being Pakistani and Muslim can comment I respect all religions and nations but just for the sake of curiosity if you are not Pakistani and Muslim then why are you wasting your time here at this forum. Because if you are not a Muslim then pig doesn’t concern you and plzzzzzzzz if you are not a Muslim then don’t bother to speak for them.
And FYI ….. think again I am not even trying….. to disappoint you trying hard would be a far away Kingdome, and DAH…… I will rather try to compete with someone more realistic and logical a word of advice no matter how hard you try you can never hit the air and still you are shooting at the air :)

Oh comooooooooooooooooooooooon from where this women isue came in .....yeah J/A give Miss Winner your # she probably will give you a call and the you both will settle this LAYS thingy and plz dontforget to inform the outcome.................. :)

Gentlemen, you are going COMPLETLY outside Lays topic. Wise guy, your comments are not so wise - why are to taking Jude frustrations out on someone else just because he ran you through the ground with your pants down?

You just prove that she is right and due to sum unfortunate reason & cirscumstances she is saying this. Lets not be personal here.

LOL
Guys and Gals
This is not a forum just for people of pakistani origin! or for that matter of islamic origin. There is no issue with Jude commenting here. If he is staying in Pakistan whether as a visitor or otherwise, his views are just as welcome. So lets not turn this into a racial or a religious issue. A healthy debate is always good. As the old saying goes...."sticks and stones may break my bones but words can't hurt me". Lets just keep it as a healthy debate with issue based comments.
I am curious with the comments from Diya though who seems to have turned this in to a sex (male/female) issue. The sex of the commenter has not been mentioned anywhere, for all she knows I am female as well! Yes Jude can be a unisex name, but most Jude's I have known are male's. So Diya, the sisterhood angle seems absolutely out of context here.

LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
LAYS-HARAM@LAYS-HARAM.LAYS-HARAM
Its 1000000000000000000000000000000%%%% Haram . .
Don't Belive their Advertismentz .
They are Lieing // Haram Haram

Pls be advised that Lays is American brand and so it must be ban in our country where foods are free from dirt and pig fats and its also halal. I am very very proud pakistani and its our moral obligation to trust our elders and do what they say. Mr. Jallen is trying to make us like western people who only does wrong. He must also be ban from this forum as he is trying to talk to females to impress with his bad thoughts on our Pakistan and take their phone number for dates..

***Deleted.***

Hey Diya, dont worry - just ignore them babe - I think Allen gave all of them a very nasty dose hehehehehehe. Praise an American or other nationality guy other than from Pakistan and the Pakistani men cant stand it. Diya just remember what the one boltaconsumer wisely said k sticks & stones may break your bones but words cant....chill out girl...hum hai na app k sath. and Hey Allen, where are you ? I want your number...hahahaha..... so that the Talibans can come after me for dating you and eating American Lays Chips ..... LoL:) what do you do Allen? as in job?

Miss Diya i am not describing anybodys kind here ok. every one has families, mother sisters are more respectable for me and for anyone for that matter but if you dont have that much patience in you then why you are here first off all i wasn't up to your family and you just did that I can write more in a same way you did but I will not because then there will be no difference between us. please try to keep families away from this debate.i didnt said any thing bad/obnoxious/abusive its just you've took it wrong and earlier you just tried to change the topic of this issue so i stated in very positive manner .If you have a complaint or issue post it in this forum if you want but this is not a chat room. Don’t go around crying like babies against men stand your ground and prove your self as many respectable ladies had done in this same man full of pakistan.

Guys Guys Guys sorry, Girls Girls Girls as well

Why is that any debate on these forums and such has to get perosnal and nasty?

No one needs to be offended and if anyone is offended then please give the other person the benefit of the doubt, certainly initially.

We are atthe end of the day talking about a packet of potato chips/crisps. No ones family etc needs to come in to it. A potato chip/crisp debate. - Its not about race, sex, culture, religion or anything else for that matter.

Yes all men are evil, according to some women, albeit in Pakistan, England, USA or elsewhere. All women are evil in certain men's eyes, again not just in Pakistan but elsehwere as well. What has that got to do with a Consumer feedback website!

I hope that some moderators are watching and monitoring this debate so that they can remove it as it seems to have run its course, before it gets more personal and nasty.

I think the point Jude was trying to make about Pakistan and Pakistani's has just been made and proven by the crappy personal tone of messages.

bravo......

I think my sincere apologies are in order here!!

I have been lashing out my frustrations with the likes of the above and it was inappropriate on a consumer forum. What good is it if after saying so much I cant “walk the talk”? To all those hurt my comments: My apologies.

To you Mr. Bolta Consumer: Hi, Sorry about the assumptions. Nice debating. Btw, I’m 100% born, bred and bled in Pakistan – and thankfully, not a journalist!! Cheers buddy yaar!!

Diya, Saima, sorry.... I’m not a foreigner…LoL.... but thanks for the feather in my cap…..lets end this now and not get anymore personal. I’m off to slander Students Biryani reputation…..LoL…kidding………………..Cheers everyone :)

Same here ...J/A

We were off to a good start but in betweem we lost our way .Buddy nothing personal .....Sorry if i heart anyones feeling specialy mIss diya.... Regards

JA
You a local breed.....!!!! Ah, a few hearts of the local WI brigade will be disappointed ;-).

Catch ya on another debate soon .... till then make sure the 9kg vest is a foreign make and not a chinese imitation!!!! lol

Stay safe ....everyone

errr...lays are manufactured locally, its not very cost effective of them to use pig fats...this is a scam :S
Now if this was in regard to the cylindrical packed lays, which are imported, it may be the case...

Hey judie, ur a Paki ….awwwww…still man, you rock Jude dude. That was a very noble statement you made. No wonder everyone mistook you for a gora…hehehehe. Kidding!!!Glad no one is fighting anymore. Ur da man dude!!! So, how do we get in contact with you? Btw, u never told us what you do? Why do u wear a bp vest?

Hey yea, what do u do mister Jude Allen? Maybe we will meet some day and talk abt your job etc and Saima too...best luck yara, tc :)

I wanna join the Jude Allen, the Pakistani Gora Fan Club!!!!!!
;-)
Dude, Mate, Yara, .... what an intrigue you've caused on this debate, especially with the Pakistani "ladies"...... who were convinced you are a Gora!!!!! LOL.

Anyway being this is a consumer complaint forum, I have raised a complaint against you under the Trade Descriptions Act!!!!

You are required to respond to it urgently, laying down your defence.

http://www.boltaconsumer.com/complaints/jude-allen-gave-the-impression-he-was-a-gora

hahahahahaha...*blushes* .....a nice way to start the day - My only line of defence is that I cant help it - I work with them. (the goras) I must have picked up a few habits. (good ones hopefully) Most welcome to join the fan club, although I haven't made one yet...still trying to get my blog site up (who knows when?) but as soon as I do, will let you guys ....and girls know about it.

Saima, Diya, sorrie :( cant help you there!!!! Due to the sensitive nature of our work, we try not to go ranting about it...actually we are not allowed. Pressed for time too - we can't meet for sure but hopefully you can keep comments floating on my blog when its ready. Till then, we can keep exchanging our views on this site regarding Pakistani consumer products ....Cheers till then!!!
P.S: Hey has any one talked about schools?? Trust me, its going to be a facinating topic requiring much needed input for real solutions for the current educational system.

Hey Jude, la la la, la la la, Hey Jude..... ah the Beatles song comes to mind!!!

You're a heartbreaker.... (ah another gora song!), You know that foreign brands are much sought after for a certain wanna bee Pakistanis....should've let the perception carry on!!! Never mind.

I agree with you on the Education front, and that is something I can talk about from personal experience of "Private Schools" especially in Karachi. So go on start the thread and lets get on with it. I'm sure now with the exam season almost over there will be plenty of contributors.

You all can see my post "LITTLE HEARTS GRAMMAR SCHOOL" just one that Im 100% sure of - but im sure there are many more. Yes, I'm sure everyone is looking forward to reading your experiences and hopefully, we can collectively chart out constructive solutions as well for the future of Education..

Dear All Plz go through this link once..........

http://www.ummatpublication.com/2009/05/16/data/story8.gif

Wiseguy, hey...psl join the bandwagon on Little Hearts Grammar School - we shifted course for a while...taking a deep breath off this toipc for a while if possible :)

Those Freaks (or Sleeping Porks), who are still on side of Lays, must check for the E631 in the ingredients list themselves.
It is people like you who don't accept the harming facts about Lays and call themselves as "Modern", who are always threat to any nation.
Even GOD must be ashamed of people like you.

Don't start!!! You wont hear the last of me!!! Trust me :)

I suppose God has nothing better to do than to be ashamed of people eating a bag of chips but hes cool with all the "other" atrocities going on around us right? All I can suggest is, If you feel Lays is not good for you, dont eat it. The ones you love, suggest to them that they dont eat it too. But you cant get off calling someone a freak and that God is ashamed of them - "Freak" would be strapping on a bomb and killing innocent women and children. Freak would be supporting MQM. Freak would be gang raping women, Freak would be forgetting we are Pakistanis and calling ourselves Mohajir, Pathan, Balochi and Sindhi instead. No modern person is a threat to the nation by eating chips - but yea, people like yourself probably do have a history called 'self distruct' which will eventually HARM the nation. btw, did you know that pork is available in Dubai? Im not talking about in Lays as an ingredient- I mean, hard core PORK. Yet, its a free-will moderate state because Islam preaches tolerance (something you are not exposed to out here so you wouldnt know) and guess what, Dubai / UAE is much more civilized than we ever will be. Consider for a minute who God is really ashamed of if you look at things from a practical pont of view.

Thank you to those who agreed with me or atlaeast tried to be reasonable. Here are a more proofs from Lay's.

The South African National Halaal Authority ( SANHA) which is committed to standardizing Halaal procedures internationally thereby rendering a credible service to both the consumer and the industry has investigated the ingredients used by Lays Pakistan. It has confirmed that the ingredients are Halaal compliant. The authority has explained that the E631 used by Lays Pakistan is derived from Tapioca starch, a plant based raw material which has been certified Halaal.

The Central Islamic Committee of Thailand has verified that Lay’s chips are free of all animal fat. The ingredient E 631 is used as a flavour enhancer and is derived from Tapioca starch and not from pig fat, the committee passed its verdict.

Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (PCSIR)
has verified that Lay’s is free of all animal meat fat and contains only vegetable fat. The council verifies in its report that the fat extracted from the provided sample contains vegetable fat. No animal fat is used in the product and hence there are no chances of pig fat neither in the ingredient E 631 or any other.

Jamia Ashrafia which serves as an authentic source to matters pertaining to Islam, its procedures and results. The Jamia is of the view that if the manufacturers and the concerned authorities have verified that the E-code ingredients included in the product have been extracted from plants and no such animal fat is used, the consumption of the Lay’s product is right and in accordance to Islam.

The proofs presented above are indeed an eye opener. They not only clear the confusion but also remove doubts from the mind of a layman. These proofs however, raise valid questions for all those who advocate the presence of haraam ingredients in Lay’s chips.

How authentic is the report by some Muslim doctor in the West? Is not the authenticity of the report questionable?

How can a single person's report on this haram ingredient debate become voice of millions and millions of Muslims all over the world?

Does one report by some anonymous individual have more weightage than several proof certificates of registration and verification by Lay’s?

Is the stated research and the arguments presented in favour of presence of pig fat based on truth or is it mere propaganda?

How true is this halaal haraam debate? Is the debater aware of the encoding process and the nature of ingredients? And if yes, can he/she actually prove and counter-attack the several reports presented to prove the ‘guilt-free’ ingredient?

Guys Plz………. Don’t get personal as it is requested. Why do we have to be inconsiderate to prove our self worthy of something? I don’t understand I mean is being abusive means that one is better then all the others or being abusive means being loud and he will be heard and discussed what’s the point. Even though I have posted this complaint but I agree with J/A here, why can’t we respect others and there views in the same way we want them to respect us or our views , I mean isn’t this what our religion told us to do that be respectful be prudent and be courteous . It’s very simple if I don’t like lays I don’t have to eat it and I have to suggest it to all those I care about. I don’t need to oblige anyone or disrespect anyone if they are differing with my views.
PS:
For me Lays still is under scrutiny coz of there false/deceptive statements :)

Thank you Zara :) I think the facts and figures speak volumes. Besides, If there are any claims of pig fat used in Lays, it must be backed up through a registered and widely accpeted governing body for halal certification - all other claims will in fact, be mere propaganda.Cheers everyone!!

Wow...for a while I thought this debate had been put to bed....argh like a bad nightmare it is back again.....

I agree with Zara and others that this story is a red herring based on an isolated report by one Muslim scientist, who was probably paid for by the competitors of Pepsico, who manufacture/produce Lays.

The extremes of some commentators here is, I suppose derived from the siege mentality that some muslims feel at the moment and look for a conspiracy in everything. Yes I agree Pepsico have not helped there own cause with their history, not just in Muslims countries but also in developed western countries.....examples I have given above, e.g. in the UK. But at the end of the day, as an individual we have to place out trust in others when we buy anything, whether it is here or in foreign lands. If someone tells me that what they are serving me is Halaal and I have no reason to doubt them, then I will take it as Halaal. having lived abrod for most of my life, if I did not employ this attitude, then I would have not been able to survive and would have died of starvation.

The same people who are arguing against Lays, will quite happily, in their ignorance buy other items, which are imported and use them. Lets take leather for example. How many leather items do we buy, which can be derived as Haraam. Was the animal killed in an Halaal manner? What about all the second hand machinery that Pakistan imports, including for the food industry etc....most of this is from Christian countries and no doubt would have previously been used in non-Halaal manner....yes the arguments are silly, but that is what this conversation has degenerated in to.

Lays have come out with adverts to argue that all their products are halaal. Countless musilm organisations have advocated this stance. So where is the problem. if you do not trust them, then why dont you exercise your rights and boycott the product. that way the only thing you will eat is something that you produce yourself from planting to cooking.....bloody silly nonsense.
People need to be less emotional and more rational here. Making statements as to who god hates and who he loves is a load of .....nonsense. Who gave you the god given right to prophesise who god loves and hates......
As ar as Pork is concerned, it is not just Dubai where it is available. It is available here in Pakistan as well. Just go to Saddar in Karachi and if you know where to go you will find pork.....
What about pakistanis that travel to foreign countries, and happily go in to MacDonalds, and KFC etc, and happily eat, Fish Burgers etc ......what oil do you think they are frying these fish burgers (Fillet o Fish etc). Its the same oil that Hamburgers, BAcon rashers etc are cooked in. DO you they change the oil for you ......
The hypocrisy of all this is that most Pakistani students that go abroad for studying etc, will end up working in these restaurants, to earn extra pocket money. They will handle all the Pig meat etc, but because they say they dont eat ot .....well thats ok.......!!!!
Open your eyes......guys and gals ....I'm against big corporations etc.....but lets not look for shit, where there is none.....

LoL :) *standing ovation* Hats off to you my friend!!!

Yea gud one. This IS hypocrisy. Im glad to see 2 - 3 sensible people on Boltaconsumer forum talking logic. As JA pointed Dubai rocks yet is a Muslim country where there is security for its citizens because they have very strict laws and penalties. Why not in Pakistan? Yet people here get emotional over potato chips. Strange.

Boltaconsumer also made strong points eg. leather products.For those of you who are still not accepting this fact, pls take your wallets and send to PCSIR for testing / halal certification..

Jude Allen, seems like you are working in Lays company and hired to support these Pork products. Even your name suggests that you don't belong to any Muslim community.
Well enjoy making money from them but don't support wrong things.
Ask Lays to remove those Haraam products instead of hiring people like you to support them.

The fact is disclosed to all of you. Now, its on you to make excuses to not accept the fact. And, its people like you who try to manipulate the false things and show them acceptable. No wonder, even Quran and Bible, warns people of people like (Allen), who tries their best to brain wash people for their profitful purposes.

What is wrong in writng "Halal" on packets of lays? All other companies do so straight.
If PepsiCo is reluctant then I see it a fishy matter.

SoL

Fraud of PEPSICO and IFF revealed. E631 and Lays is Haram and contains Pig fats.

http://blog.yasirmturk.com/page/Part-1-Lays-contains-pig-fats-says-Daily-Ummat.aspx

http://blog.yasirmturk.com/page/Part-2-Lays-contains-pig-fats-says-Daily-Ummat.aspx

http://blog.yasirmturk.com/page/Part-3-Lays-contains-pig-fats-says-Daily-Ummat.aspx

complete details on E Code, Lays, PEPSICO and IFF in URDU Language...if some one can reproduce the english version i will appreciate

hahahahaha...indeed Mr. Agrieved, it seems I have changed careers, religions and countries on this forum at break-neck speed - even managed to establish a fan club for the wonderful ladies.......and gentlemen too. LoL : )

Yet, this forum, thankfully doesn't revolve around my comments alone. Other people, Muslims, Pakistanis, foreigners, male, female, everyone's opinions count. My friend Mr. Pakistan Boltaconsumer, in an inspiring and eye-opening comment stated everything you need to know without me adding a line further. I suggest you read his comments very carefully once again. That post was specifically intended for people like yourself.

If I was working for Lays company , I'd be a Pepsi supporter too. I dont need to brain wash anyone. Facts usually leave no room for possibilities I'm told.

But Im just assuming here (and this is for the Admin and management guys at BoltaConsumer): At this point in time, you guys should approach Pepsico for a hefty sponsorship. I mean, look at the leverage they are getting from this forum. LoL:) Cheers everyone, hope you all had a great weekend.

Damn, this is a great campaign by someone, I wish I had thought of it to discredit a competitor company!!!
So OK boring a life that I have I spent many hours on a long flight, wishing the hours away, looking at many of the links that have been posted above and on similar postings. I was hoping to discover something that would actually make me change my stance on the matter.
Well the long and the short of it is that there is absolutely nothing at all posted even on the ummat website that actually proves of a collusion or a cover-up and hence a conspiracy against "Pakistani Muslims".
So the daily ummat in URDU has done a bit of leg work and refuted each and every one of the defences that PepsiCo have put forward. They have refuted the following:

1. Jamia Ashrafia: But Jamia Ashrafia spokesperson, according to Daily Ummat stated that "if what Pepsico have told them to be the truth then they consider Lays to be HALAAL" on the other hand if they have not been truthful then Lays is Haraam.
So no surprises there as Jamia Ashrafia has taken a stance that they should take, just like we all should. As I have previously mentioned, if someone tells me that what they are offering you is Halaal and you have no reason to doubt them then you should consider that item as Halaal.

2. IFF - This company is some sort of an expert in producing flavours etc. So PepsiCo provided certificates from this organisation saying that E631 that they provide to Pepsico is Halaal. I have seen a copy of this certificate. Now as an established company of repute, IFF should be believed. Not that I know of them. So In this case, Pepsico is accepting a guarantee from another approved company that E631 being provided to them is Halaal.
Now employing the logic that you accept things to be halaal unless u have evidence otherwise, Pepsico has done nothing wrong.

3. Thailand Islamic institute of something or other - Apparently IFF is approved and verified by this institute. Now legitimacy of this institute is questioned......like intentions of PepsiCo, IFF and all the others. Examples of a case in Indonesia is given against a Japanese company from 2001.

Too much detail to go in to and I really cannot be bothered to be honest. We are all suppose to be adults with intelligence. According to Islam, (now someone will question my interpretation of islam here), what distinguishes us as humans to be better than other animals is that we have the capacity to think and learn and better ourselves, by use of our brain......we are suppose to have intelligence and be civilised. Although behaviour of some individuals both here and generally in Pakistan makes one wonder.

We can keep going on and questioning the legitimacy of every organisation in the world and questioning one or the other actions they have taken and thus tarnish their reputation. That's what the PR industry is for and I have personally done that on many occasions. But using our intelligence we are suppose to decide for ourselves and make an intelligent decision.

So the final point I will make again here as I have done before is that IF YOU DOUBT WHAT PEPSICO AND A HELL OF A LOT OF OTHER ISLAMIC ORGANISATIONS ARE SAYING THEN DONT BUY LAYS CHIPS. The final decision is YOURS. Pepsico are not forcing you at gun point to eat their chips. The analogy here can be used that if Pepsico asked you to go and jump off a cliff, would you do it? Of course you would not because you will use your intelligence and work out that by jumping off a cliff you are most likely to die. Thats not good (well for some people it may actually be good to do... ;-), sorry sense of humour comes out). Likewise, if you dont think believing what PepsiCo are telling you is good for you, e.g. making you eat haraam instead of halaal, then dont listen to them and dont buy Lays Chips. It is simple as that. Majority of the muslim world accepts the chips (LAYS) to be halaal (UAE, Saudi, South Africa, UK, etc etc), but this is only an issue with Pakistan.

E631 -
Halal if it is obtained from sardines.
Mushbooh if it is made from brewer yeast extract, a by-product of beer making.
Haram if it is extracted from pig meat.
According to all the sources E631 used by Pepsico is derived from plants etc (cassava for example). I have personally made cassava chips/crisps, fried them in vegetable oil and to be honest they are better then potato chips/crisps. A hell of a lot of my Gujrati friends, both muslims and others (Vegans) make cassava chips, it part of the staple diet in Africa.....

No one here or on the Daily Ummat website has come up with any proof to show that Lays are haraam. All everyone seems to be doing is to cast a doubt or suspicion. Surely, the burden is on the accusers to prove that a wrong doing has happened. The basic tenet of justice is "Innocent until proven guilty".

A message for PepsiCo - Surely I should be on a retainer from your company..... lol ..... ;-), as I will be accused of working for you anyway, just like the Judas ...... Jude Allen .......
Sorry mate...... just laugh it off....

Ok......here is a discussion about this same complaint ......It asks the same basic question that I and others have asked....Who the hell is Dr Khan who apprently did this research. Why has he not come out and backed up his work and defended it. In this day of the media Why has no one managed to track him down......

The following is an excerpt of a discussion and actually seems very sensible to be............

Many people understand the Muslim concern for pig products - whether its fat or meat.

However, the authenticity of the article you reposted above seems to have been questioned so many times, basically for two main reasons:

1. its authorship -

Dr. M. Amjad Khan
Medical Research Institute
United States)))

Please, which 'Medical Research Institute' in particular is "Dr. M. Amjad Khan" connected with? The reasons for this question are that:

(a) there are several 'MRI's (Medical Research Institutes) in the United States; and they are usually designated so that observers may know for sure that a particular MRI is being referred to; and -

(b) Research Institutes in the USA are not (usually) arbitrarily appended to a research fellow's or member's name with reference to personal ideas which have not been peer-reviewed.

as regarding (a) above, there are several examples of 'MRI's (Medical Research Institutes) in the USA, and they include -

* USAMRIID - the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases
.
* .USAMRICD - United States Army Medical Research Institute of Chemical Defense
.
* .SMRI - the Stanley Medical Research Institute
.
* .BMRI - The Burke Medical Research Institute
.
* .USARIEM - United States Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine

Indeed, sometime ago someone tried to point out that there was a 'Medical Research Institute' without a designation as in the examples above. However, the link he supplied was not a "Research Institute", but rather was a company dealing with sports nutrition products and based in San Francisco, California. From the BusinessWeek website, it could be clearly seen that this company "does not have any Key Executives recorded".

So, what particular "Medical Research Institute, United States" is "Dr. M. Amjad Khan" a member?

____________

2. The problem of assumed E-codes for Pig Fat: Another problem with the recycled article is that it mentions the so-called 'E-codes' as containing PIG FAT -

So, I request all MUSLIMS or non pork eaters to check the ingredients of the ITEMS of daily use and match it with the following list of E-CODES. If any of the ingredients listed below is found, try to avoid it, as it has got PIG FAT;

E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153, E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E252, E270, E280, E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337, E422, E430, E431, E432, E433, E434, E435, E436, E440, E470, E471, E472, E473, E474, E475,E476, E477, E478, E481, E482, E483, E491, E492, E493, E494, E495, E542,E570, E572, E631, E635, E904.

Em, hang on a minute. This is highly suspect. Let's take just one example: E100 - does this refer to something that has PIG FAT? Medically (and honestly), that is not true.

The fact is that E100 is a code, not for pig fat, but for a rhizomatous herbaceous perennial plant of the ginger family. It (E100) is commonly known as "Turmeric (Curcuma longa)". You may consult any good resource to verify that it is not referring to pig fat, but rather to a plant. One such source is Wikipedia -

Turmeric (coded as E100 when used as a food additive)
is used to protect food products from sunlight. The oleoresin is used
for oil-containing products. The curcumin/polysorbate solution or curcumin powder dissolved in alcohol is used for water containing products. Over-coloring, such as in pickles, relishes and mustard, is sometimes used to compensate for fading

Even this Muslim website (muslimtents.com) notes that E100 is Turmeric -

E Codes:

E100 Curcumin, turmeric [Colouring] halal

I don't mean to upset anything in the article you've reposted here, (it has been circulated too many times in numerous muslim websites with the same message that the E-codes contain pig fat). However, it does not appear that any Muslim is able to show which 'Medical Research Institute' the said "Dr. M. Amjad Khan" is connected with; nor does it appear how any muslim (with or without a medical background) could explain how a herbaceous perennial plant could contain "pig fat".

Perhaps you may help readers find pointers to these concerns.

LoL:) Well said bro. but after all this extensive homework I can actually bet you:- someone will post something TOTALLY LAME to discredit Lays yet again, and without any legitimate reason or proof . It's just funny!!!! Anyways, Im going to be away for a few days - hope to catch up with you all later. Cheers!!!!

WoW

A simple but INTELLIGENT search on the internet comes out with very interesting stuff.

I am amazed that a storyline by a Dr Amjad Khan has become such a major issue in Pakistan that a company the stature of PEPSICO is placing adverts in the national media refuting it. I think PepsiCO need a more effective PR/Marketing department as anyone with an ounce of common sense would have rubbished this story from the outset.

This RESEARCH has been doing the rounds on the internet and through viral email marketing (SPAM) for a long long time. I have found discussions on this research by Dr Amjad Khan of Medical Research Institute going back five or six years.!!! SO what is new in this now and why has this become such a major issue in pakistan only.

Here is a factual answer to some of the E-Codes that Dr Khan states that they contain Pig Fat.......

Well the list from Medical Research Institute of United States is not correct at all.
I hope this will help you.

These are colours not from animals.
E100, E110, E120, E 140, E141, E153

These are presevations and some acids not from animals.
E210, E213, E214, E216, E234, E270, E280
E252 Potassium nitrate its a naturally occurring mineral,or artificially manufactured from animal and vegetable material.

Antioxidants, some food acids and mineral salts not from animals.
E325, E326, E327, E334, E335, E336, E337

Vegetable gums, emulsifiers, and some Anti-caking agents, humectants and mineral salts
E436,E422, E432, E433, E434, E435
E470,E471, E472, E473,E475,E477can be animal but not always.
E478 dont know about this one, cant find it and never heard of it.
E474, E476, E440,E481, E482, E483, E491, E492,
E493,E494, E495

More mineral salts and Anti-caking agents
E542The degreased steam extract from animal bones
E570 Fatty acid found in all animal fats and vegetable oils.
E572 Synthetically from commercial stearic acid.

E631 Can be prepared from meat extracts or dried sardines.
E635, E904.

@ Pakistani: Well I have been following the debate on the issue. As stated in my earlier post, I again question the authenticity of Dr. Amjad. Had he been real he would have come out and stood by his words. He would have not missed any chance of missing out the bouts of fame his research had brought to him. He would have been proud of himself for being our HERO.

But Dr. Khan seems too shy with the public or maybe too much of a saint to accept our gratitude! Who is he? Where is he? And how authentic is his source? If he is right about his ingredient debate why not anybody else has come up with a similar stance to fight the several proofs presented by the company?

Does one report by some anonymous source and utterly unauthentic reference become voice of millions and millions of Muslims? When will we start seeing things from the lens of sense and not from behind the covers?

Let’s forget Dr Khan out. Let’s not forget he is not important, matter of Haram/Halal is important consumer rights are important. Let’s suppose Dr Khan does not exist let’s suppose someone just tagged him, but still guys and gals E-631 is used in lays masala chips which can be produced from

1. Pig fats
2. Bacterial fermentation of sugar
3. Fish (sardines)

I am not taking sides now very simply if lays is using pig fats and refusing to accept then what else can anybody do apart from posting comments against lays, making fool of us ,and on the other hand if this is not the case then what ??? Who do we trust, how do we know, as former Pakistani said already many things we eat we don’t know about the ingredients. But my question is now that we know that some thing fishy fishy is going on in this product now what??? except writing our brains out and searching on net and magz news papers etc although I am sure no one from us has visited lays lab or lays cooking facility :) or any other lab with holding chips in our hands just to check is there pig fats in it????

Now if some how by mistake or spam or whatever this issue was raised and if we put down all the other crap and just take E631 this matter is still suspicious how many in this forum has this much knowledge which they have now about these codes before this issue was pointed. Honestly I personally was not this much aware of such codes a bit earlier but now I have all the information and I understand the ways to find about these codes how this happened?? I learned from this debate and in my opinion this is the real success of this forum and this complaint. I hope many have learned the same Ok lets not be unfair if one thinks that he is not clear about the matter he can stop eating and can suggest to others too, right now this can be the only conclusion here. But are we doing justice , my question is if we just have to type lots of words regardless of the outcome and then move on to next issue then what’s the point this is not only the question of halal and haram this also includes consumer rights why in a Muslim country a brand is selling doubted products who gave them the right why cant they just sell products which are not doubtful, and they have to do this with proper clarification .We have raised our voices we have discussed it in details some of my friends have spent many hours in search of proving evidence in favor or against this issue. I think just one stage of this discussion is completed which was awareness, but still where is corrective and preventive action and how it can be done, what measures can we take to reduce such issues if we cannot take out completely even if its spam or real who will ask lays who will verify the certificates who we talk with or send a letter for such issues where are the concerning authorities how can we help establishment to build a stronger community. How can we create a better aware society, as one dude mentioned earlier something about thinking out of the box. :) Dig the ideas bring them up. Till then Take care everyone.

WiseGuy
I totally acknowledge your sentiments in the message, but lets say for debate sake, the same arguments that you have presented to justify that more needs to be found out could be used against your stance. Right from my first message on this subject I said that PepsiCo have not done themselves a favour in the way they have acted and their history and I gave an FACTUAL example of what they did in the UK a few years ago with Walkers Crisps (called LAYS Crisps in other countries).
But what I do question is that why do we as consumers have to keep picking up on stories that were proven to be baseless, many years ago. This exact story was discussed on similar forums as far back as 2004/5. It was probably discussed earlier then that as well. It went away and now it has re-surfaced again. So what happened during this time? Did Pepsico change their ingredients and muslims bacame happy? Did muslims discover that this is a false story created to cause mis-chief and ignored it? Well no one seems to know. One thing is for sure, A Dr Amjad Khan does not exist. If he does then he is probably the most shrewd person in history because over the last five years no one has managed to find him. Also, what a saint/sinner he is that despite having done this amazing [sic] research, he has not come out to back it up or deny it. Furthermore, the institute he worked for DOES NOT exist. I tell you the analogy here....our president Zardari came out and said he went to a school in London to do his degree. The name of the school he mentioned has never existed in the history of London. Our President cannot remember what degree he studied for. Well all of us know that he did not go to any such school and did not do any degree....basically he was lying. Unfortunately, Dr Amjad Khan likewise does not exist and this story is a lie.
The problem is that because Daily Ummat and others seem to have gone in to this looking to find things wrong, they will actually find something wrong. Thats the way things work. BUT NO ONE has come out and proven or even tried to prove that PepsiCo have done anything wrong. Come on with all the great scientist we have and intellectuals, why cant we just take this product and out it through a thorough analysis to find out exactly what is inside it. I tell you why. Because that way the story will die in one way or another. It will come to an end. And then we will have to move on to another conspiracy theory against Muslims of Pakistan. Because this is not a story that has affected anyone other muslim. It is only affecting muslims of Pakistan. Other muslims dealt with it 5 years ago and moved on.
LOL... Does that not say it all............knowing how emotional and irrational Pakistanis can get....someone tried to cause mis-chief by re-releasing this story here....and absolutely as predicted Pakistanis have jumped on the band-wagon. Come on Pakistanis.....we are better then this and we have more common sense then this........lets use some of this common sense.
People have asked why cant Pepsico justed place a label on the packets stating the product is halaal. Lets be honest, if for some pakistanis, Full page colour adverts in the national media, along with certificates from respected Muslims organisations is not enough, then why would a small label with halaal make a difference.
You ask that people dont know about E-Codes. Well my friend try living in a Christian country where everything you do could be considered to be haraam. You learn to check these things out. You learn to read the ingredients labels to see what is inside. It becomes as natural as breathing. Its a habit. Maybe thats what Pakistanis need to do, read the labels. But then again you guys do not even accept what the label says.....hence nothing will ever be right for you.
In this instance like I have said before, NEVER BUY ANYTHING JUST IN CASE IT MAY HAVE HARAAM PRODUCTS. JUST LEARN TO GROW AND EAT YOUR OWN FOOD.

Please can anyone tell me why muslims will make other muslims eat pig fats??? they are all manufactured in Pakistan which is a muslim country. they are even eaten in Saudia Arabia. Is everyone such a dumb person that he/she cannot comprehend wts going on in here?

I totally agree with you my friend .And also firmly believe that doing business in a Muslim country doesn’t require products to be printed with Halal as you stated no body will accept it .I was basically describing the point that it might be the case that all of this would have been a mere propaganda or false accusation but at least it had turned around many heads. And as for E codes, in context with Halal Haram are well known in all those countries which are not Majority Muslims because a large number of Muslims work there or live there (I also had spent a little time there) so its like breathing/habit for them and that’s what we really need as you said but countries like ours we lake in pace and we are far behind in all aspects. We need to pace up we need to be realistic so that no one can play with us.

if its haram than go and caught first who allow and give them licence
paki are only know how to criticize not to act

Very well said NRB.

Let the things get momentum and you'll witness (even participate) that how aware this Nation is and how patriot every Pkistani is!

SoL

Absolutely right...until the people in power start to consider the consumer, nothing will happen. The big corporations will know that they can buy off the corrupt politicians rather then to provide value to their customers.

Yes, that is the problem IN THIS COUNTRY(LIKE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES). It is loaded with money-hungry swine-like management, who only cares for profit and their jobs not for people.

1000% HARAM

HEY GUY'S PLEASE ALSO .. GO TO SEE THE PTCL ..

http://www.boltaconsumer.com/complaints/ptcl-broadband-low-speed-of-downloading

ALSO MAKE COMMENTS ON PTCL ?? HOW ARE YOU FELLING ABOUT PTCL ..

Lets move on to other serious issues....like the KESC or PTCL and similar.

Recently Pepsi people tried to convince alll of us tha Lays is a halal product. Where they say thier product is FRIED in VEGITABLE OIL. This campaign rather confirms our doubts on purity of lays as no one says it is FRIED in Animal Fats. Point is its taste enhancers are derived from animal fats most probalbly from pigs' fat.
We must strive hard to curb this 'bull shitting' of international companies.

{I will post a letter of Walls Ice Cream where company's confi UK office confimrs that most of their brands contain ALCOHAL}

Regards
Shafqat Jilani
BIzShip@gmail.com
www.BizShip.com
+92 321 783 5515

@Shafqat Jilani:

I am lost while reading your post. What are you trying to say? Are you saying that Lay’s has succeeded in clearing all the controversies against it or are you trying to convince people that you don’t agree with their verifications?
“Recently Pepsi people tried to convince alll of us tha Lays is a halal product. Where they say thier product is FRIED in VEGITABLE OIL. This campaign rather confirms our doubts on purity of lays as no one says it is FRIED in Animal Fats.”

Please explain. Let me on my part. Lay’s never said it FRIES the chips in vegetable oil. The debate was on the E631 ingredient. Lay’s assured its customers that E631 is derived from Tapioca Starch which is extracted from cassava plant. It never said that it fries Lay’s in vegetable oil.

“Point is its taste enhancers are derived from animal fats most probalbly from pigs' fat.”

Here again you seem confused. Once you mention “fried” and then you say “flavour enhancers”. It is not taste ENHANCERS but a taste ENHANCER. Second could you please provide an AUTHENTIC source which says that the taste enhancer is derived from animal fat? Third your ‘MOST PROBABLY’ is funny. We expect the debater to be sure of what he advocates. Are you not?! Fourth let me quote from my previous post what Lay’s manufacturers have to say about this debate:

Jamia Ashrafia which serves as an authentic source to matters pertaining to Islam, its procedures and results is of the view that if the manufacturers and the concerned authorities have verified that the E-code ingredients included in the product have been extracted from plants and no such animal fat is used, the consumption of the Lay’s product is right and in accordance to Islam.

The South African National Halaal Authority (SANHA) which is committed to standardizing Halaal procedures internationally thereby rendering a credible service to both the consumer and the industry has investigated the ingredients used by Lays Pakistan. It has confirmed that the ingredients are Halaal compliant. The authority has explained that the E631 used by Lays Pakistan is derived from Tapioca starch, a plant based raw material which has been certified Halaal.

The Central Islamic Committee of Thailand has verified that Lay’s chips are free of all animal fat. The ingredient E 631 is used as a flavour enhancer and is derived from Tapioca starch and not from pig fat, the committee passed its verdict.

Is there any room left for any doubt about the FACT that the flavour enhancer is derived from vegetable fat and not animal meat fat lest pig fat?

Please first try to sound reasonable. Present us with FACTS and no vague hints here there. And also I would suggest try to finish the ongoing discussion first before moving on to another topic. If so many authentic proofs cannot satisfy you, I would suggest don’t misguide people through your assumptions.

Thanks!

Dear Zara
Let me make it to the point.
Lays is not blamed for being fried in animal fat, but the allegation is the use of "E631 ingredient" that is used for taste development.
In their recent campaign they tried to convert the attention from this core issue and started beating the drum of 'vegetable oil' that is not an objection here. If they are right, they must have tried to explain about the "E631" to the public. General public cannot have access to the technical data and explanation is needed for this issue.
For Jamia Ashrafia, and Banori ' Ulema' they issue Fatawa on the declaration and claims of companies/applicants. Such 'Fatawas' have been exploited for the business purpose in past as well.......networking marketing companies like Golden Key and Biznas. Further more such religious institutes don’t possess technical expertise required to verify and confirm authenticity of such matters.
There is a simple rule defined by ‘Allah’, that anything that puts you in doubt, remain away from that.
Sincerely
Shafqat Jilani
www.BizShip.com
BizShip@gmail.com

Its amazing how this debate just keeps going round and round the same issues. New people come on and without reading everything that has been discussed before, just post the same old objections. This story has been doing the rounds for over FIVE years. IT IS NOT NEW. REST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD MOVED ON YEARS AGO and are still eating Lays.

Zara - you are correct as I have previously mentioned. I have no idea what else people are looking for as verification, if they doubt every authentication that is presented to them but provide no proof or evident to support their doubts!!!

Shafqat Jilani - You fall in to the category of people that I mention above. You probably came across the debate and did not bother reading ALL that has been written. That surprises me because obviously one aim of yours was to get people to visit your Business Website that you keep signing off with. Great Trick. I am amazed the administrators did not take that part out, considering that they keep reminding others that this is a CONSUMER COMPLAIN website..... However, they have allowed you to advertise your business on it. You're not linked to them are you?

But someone who advises people on Business Strategy and Marketing etc....what would be your advise to your client, if they were caught out doing/claiming something wrong? Would you advise them to carry on like Pepsico have done and provide more proof that could possibly be discounted? Of course you would not, and with no disrespect to your Business Acumen - dont you think PepsiCo's legal advisors would have advised them accordingly of the consequences of persisting with the lie that Lays are Halaal if they were not?

Using your own statement "There is a simple rule defined by ‘Allah’, that anything that puts you in doubt, remain away from that". Why dont people, including you, put this to good use and refrain from eating Lays, if you do not believe PepsiCo, Jamia Ashrafia, The South African National Halaal Authority (SANHA), The Central Islamic Committee of Thailand, and countless other consumer organisations from around the world where Lays (or Walkers) crisps are sold, when they say that according to them Lays/Walkers is Halaal. If you dont know, The South African muslim population/community is one of the purest followers of Islam you are likely to come across. There practice of Islam will put Pakistanis to shame. But Lays is OK for them!!!!

You guys are asking for proof from PepsiCo, but when they present it You DO NOT accept it.
Whats next? Will you guys start to campaign that you dont believe that the Sky is Blue? or maybe the Earth is not round but flat!! This is how ridiculous this argument has become.

WHAT???? This debate is still going on?? While I was away I was wondering if you guys had moved on to making waves on other realistic discussions . Really!! This is such a sad shame. Im curious to know WHAT OTHER PROOF are we looking for out here to verify the Lays authenticity. Tracking the history of these threads, I have come to realize one thing: It's not really about proof. I just that that there are few people on this forum who enjoy causing chaos, they love throwing spanners in mechnisms just for their entertainment, putting aside legitimate proof in exchange for their 'ideal theory' on everything. What they do not realize is that at the end of the day, they only fool themselves. I mean, imagine the bundle of laughs we get reading these posts. Shafqat Jilani, you just gota be kidding me!! How lame can you get out here? Marketing stunt or not, your arguments as Zara pointed out make no sense at all. Your rationale seems out of focus with your PROBABLE THEORY of things. As a business consultant, this is a highly unprofessional statement and a very amature way to market your website. There are a few level headed people on this forum who have been consistently asking again and again, if you have TECHNICALLY CERTIFIED, VERIFIED LEGITIMATE PROOF of Lays using pig fats please, we request you, beg you, implore you to put it forward and save the nation - be a hero, bring salvation to humanity blah blah blah...otherwise dude, let it rest. This world doesnt revolve around probable theories and possibilities but facts alone.

Hi Every body,

i have been reading about Lays story, do u think a company working in Pakistan, Pakistani producing Lays can contain Pig Fat?? obviously they are Muslim too, i also red aboput E631 can be obtained from plant, in net i found that, honestly initially i aws worried too cause i like to eat Lays, but after their point of view i make search again in google i found that it cintains Vegatable fat, & obviously the companies compatotors take advantage of false/ incomplete information,
i request to all of u pls before making our own point of view about company who are giving employment to Pakistani ppl & being helpful to grow economy, we should think, let our ecenomy GROW...

Thanks,

@Tahir:

I completely agree with you dear sensible thinker. Let me but elaborate your point more.
This controversy which has proved to be false has not only brought bad name to the manufacturers of Lay’s, but has also put its own people in doubt, has tarnished future plans of international organizations to build their set ups here and hence has reduced the chances of foreign exchange flowing in the country with several job prospects for many.

The world is hit by the worst economic recession in a long time and almost all developed economies are bearing the brunt. Pakistan fortunately has been on a safer side primarily because of its slow but stable growth indexes. The way in which the propaganda statement about lay’s has circulated brings forward a well devised strategy to damage the flourishing manufacturing industry of Pakistan- the backbone of our economy.

Such statements, no matter how small they are ignite the religious sentiments of our population and leave them with no option but to record protests against the producers both verbally and in action. This in turn discourages the foreign investors to set up their businesses here or continue their market. This in turn derails the chances of employment.

What one must understand is that most of the times these foreign industries do not even have their people working here. It is the people of Pakistan who establish these organizations and the people of Pakistan who produce the goods. So the end result of the protests is the crippling of our very own people and our very own economy. At the end of the day it is our people who suffer mass unemployment, damage to their property, lives, family etc. In short the whole process is a vicious circle which starts from our very own people and ends on them. And on what cost? Rumours, falsehood and unauthentic information.

Regards,

Zara khan.

Lays removed the E631 from its packs to keep itself safe but Lays is still using E631 from Pig Fats and as for Pakistani Management of Lays, it isn't an issue for them to feed anything haram for profit. They do it all the time.

@agrieved
Please be reasonable, see the full post above, current debate was taged with Lays Masala only.
I agree to Zara Khan and J A, some people are thickheaded.
By the Way, I have challenge for you, can any one search Dr. Amjad as I have contacted many Islamic and Technical Intitutions looking for him.
Guys believe me, he is fake.
I hope it would satisfy many people now. Always Remember Islamic Rule"verify before you ampify"
Regards

LAYS IS HARAM.. JO NAI MANTA WO KA LAY . PHER KIYAAMAT KAY DIN USSY PATA CHALY GA KAY HAY HARAM THA YA NAI ??

Junaid Jamshed has endorsed Lays but his endorsement is not effective due to following reasons:

1. He is not an authority on the subject(He is not expert of Islamic law)

2. He mentions Lays is being made in Pakistan. This does not necessarily mean that its Halal.

3. PepsiCo has not allowed Ulema and scientists to visit their manufacturing location.

PepsiCo obtained and annonymous fatwa from Jamia Ashradfia without mentioning its name and full production process. this seems a deceptive move on their part.

Please avoid eating lays; you will suffer no harm by not eating it even if its halal but you will suffer even it is Haraam.

AGREEED WIHT ABDULLAH ...

I disagree because Lays was first introduced in Saudia Arabia and then in Pakistan.So if lays chips are Haram (prohibited) then why they are available in Saudia Arabia ?

Oh Abdullah, Arabs really dont have enough mind to explore such deep things. They are morons by barin, they only have money that made them lucky.

Yes Mr. Agrieved,

You are right!! Arabs really dont have enough mind to explore such deep things..they are morons...and our Pakistanis are indeed very deep thinkers. No wonder we have such SINCERE DEDICATED leaders lke Gen Zia ul Haq, Asif Zardari, Nawaz Shariff, not to mention political heavyweights like Altaf Hussein, ohh the list could go on...and our dedicated Pakistani citizens who support them. No wonder we FEEL SO SAFE whenever we walk out of our homes, no wonder when an innocent woman was gang raped and made to walk naked in public, a leader said 'She did it to get a US visa" yeah...ur right...we Pakistanis are soo much more deep thinkers than Arabs. Only a Pakistani can mastermind thru deep thinking how to plot and plan for a corrupt outcome - they can have it no other way. So yeah, you are right bro. We Pakistanis are deep deep thinkers...and boy we are even deeper in other things too...but hey, why bother right? after all, we have more SERIOUS issues in our pathetic lives to deal with for example: A PACKET OF POTATO CHIPS!!!!

Here is another proof. Jamia Uloom Islamia Allama Binori Town has verified that Lay's is free of all animal meat fat and contains only vegetable fat. The Jamia is of the view that Lay’s uses E 635 as an ingredient which is made from the combination of two ingredients E 631 and E 627. It has elaborated that the basic ingredient E631 is derived from vegetable fat. The Jamia has further explained that Lay’s purchase E 635 from its flavor house IFF. The ingredient is provided to IFF by a renowned company Ajinomoto based in Thailand.

Jamia Binoria has stated in its report that if the ingredient E 635 is derived from vegetable fat and that Lay’s purchase it from known sources then there are no chances of animal meat fat neither in the ingredient E635 or any other.

Hope this still clears to many out there!
Regards,

Taunts on Arab....Oops!...is that OK now? Is it not sinful and UNISLAMIC?

Think people.

LOL....

I see that the old posters are still wasting their time on this matter. JA and Zara are back. Guys why dont you realise that it is a waste of time trying to argue with these people. NO MATTER what evidence you present to them, they still argue of a consiparacy theory against the Pakistanis. Now arabs are being attacked. Well I'm no fan of the arabs, but thats a separate issue. One thing I will say is that where Halaal food is concerned, I will much rather trust and arab then a Pakistani.

I mean on parallel threads to this story, people have also started to question whether Pepsi or Coke is Halaal. Zara, your argument above just supplements similar proof that has emerged and has been around for FIVE years on this story. That was not good enough for these guys so another islamic organisation supporting Lays will also be not good enough.

JA...what happened to your school thread? Its seems to have disappeared.

Wow,

What a debate priceless .I thought it was over…..
You are absolutely right {(((PFBC))) its easy to write  } I am sure if someone may go to some neutral advanced lab and some how get the end result showing NO PIGFATS still thousands of questions are going to be raised no one will accept it as far as I understand the mind set of most of the participants on this forum it will be useless doing any practical research it might be good for the person himself but no one will be accepting it.

WG
PFBC is fine....the point is that all this has happened based on a report by someone who has never bothered to come forward in the five years since the report was published through SPAM. This Dr Khan does not exist but it has taken PAKISTANIS five years to pick up on the report. FIVE years after it was dismissed as a hoax in other muslim countries!

You mention independent research, do you think these guys will actually accept any such report if they are doubting so many islamic organisations backing of Lays? I doubt it. you know when you get in the conspiracy mind set as Pakistanis are now in general, it is impossible to make anyone believe anything. Simply because it is convenient to blame all your ills and wrongs on someone or some hidden force - hence the conspiracy theory.

This story will keep rumbling on and on in Pakistan. That's a fact. Simple because we have nothing better to do. I mean just look at this website....by far the most comments being posted on here are for the Lays story in numerous parallel threads. In the meantime, Lays has had so much publicity that I bet there sales are actually higher now then they were before this story finally arrived in pakistan, a full five years after the rest of the world dealt with it!

Thanks for coming in Jude, seems like Lays is really consistent in providing you handsome amount for all that.
There is BIG DIFFERENCE between Scientists, Researchers and Politicians, seems like you tend to ignored that difference to justify your pay from Lays. And, our Scientists and Researchers are much better than Arabs or else they would have topped up in Research field(And Iran isn't an Arab country and is much trustworthy in its certificates than both a Pakistani and Arab company).
As for Potato Chips, Yes its a main concern when it includes something not good for us.
If Lays want to sell Lays cooked in Pig Extracts E631 then they should tell it clearly so that only non-muslims(as name Jude suggests) can lay their hands on it or those muslims who dont care for Halal stuff.

@Agreived ----- "If Lays want to sell Lays cooked in Pig Extracts E631 then they should tell it clearly so that only non-muslims(as name Jude suggests) can lay their hands on it or those muslims who dont care for Halal stuff."

But where has it been proven that Lays includes E631 that contains Pig fats? How can someone admit to something when there is no evidence to prove that they do! Also, to the contrary a lot of evidence has been provided to support Lays case that the chips/crisps are halaal.

Why doesn't any one of you that does not believe Lays is halaal, provide some evidence to support your arguments. Why do u use unproven analogies and alleged propoganda to support your argument. Provide something factual or concrete to support your argument. Just because someone takes a logical and intelligent line and that happens to be in support of PepsiCo, it doesn't mean that they are paid for by PepsiCo. By the same argument who are you being paid for by to rubbish Lays. Maybe you are being paid by one of the Pakistani manufacturers of chips to rubbish Lays so that they can get a higher share of the market. So come on Mr (or Miss) Agrieved, who is oiling your greasy palm?

So, Mr.Pakistani, seems like you are same person with another name here. And Ah! How I wish I was paid for all this, so that I could be very consistent with my replies rather than coming on any free day. Well, my words for your are:
I think you can well analyze that the face validity of Halal certificates are now being questioned in public's eye. Some Jamia's approval or any Saudi approval is hardly getting trusted.
Even I asked the same question to many around me that why they arn't using and selling lays anymore and the answer was that:
"Halal certificates from any Pakistani or Arab source isn't trustworthy" because they think Pakistani food authority is corrupt enough to protect public's interest and Arabs harldy have their own research and have foreign research influences rather than their own research in labs.
However they are still having confidence on Iran's Halal Approval. So doesn't it seems like to be the time that companies can now provide Halal certificate from trustworthy country like Iran rather than Pakistan or Arabs, whose research skills are bing questioned in this particular field.
And, the big problem with Pakistanis like you is that, they fail to respond and change with the changing needs and needs are now being changed when it comes to trustworthiness of certificates. You are educated enough to know that If a person is "just accused" to be Rapist, attitude gets changed towards him, so its better not to use such person for your marketing. Same applies for those Arab/Pakistani Halal certificates.
And you know that People's trusted Halal certificates matters for Lays and any company to reap big profits and get even those who are moving to to other brands of chips.

hahahahahahah, Mr. Pakistani BC, In case you didnt notice, yesterday my tone was harsh on this forum - reason being: I was in a very sour mood. Whenever im at site, I expose myself to some of the most ugliest of situations that make me want to break down (or break someone's head) LoL - yesterday, I decided to take it out on poor Mr. Agrieved. Today however, he has provided me enough of entertainment by his remarks to cheer me up. He actually thinks you and I are the same person? He forgets that you and I were literally 'at it' earlier on in the threads when everyone assumed I was a foreigner.

Dear Mr. Agrieived: You got me - Im a Christian (technically) I was born in a Christian family. Unfortunately, Im not worthy of being called a Christian because I am unable to fulfil my required duties - So im just comfortable being called a human. I just like it that way. Second. Some of my closest & most dearest friends who I love to death are Muslims; and im very proud of them. All said and done, it doesnt matter any more what you think about me :) These 3 weeks being away on site have changed the way I think YET AGAIN. I can only hope there is a way people like you realise what are the REAL issues versus mere propaganda. You really need to dig deep into what im saying bro.

Anyways, guys and girls, my apologies, was away so couldn't contribute to the threads on Little Hearts School, but I've managed to dig up some information which I will be sure to post later on in the day. All the best & take care :)

Poor Agrieved?
I am capable of slapping in same(or may be even in more harsh) terms like you, Mr. Jude. Just because you have more presence here doesn't makes you king of jungle. And, I was here to provide justification on the topic with no intentions of knowing your friends.
You were comparing Pakistani Politicians with Arab researchers, and you were replied.
Pakistani(and surely you too) was confused(or irritated) over why people not accept these Halal certificates and he was notified of the image problem with these Halal certificates.
And, I seek response only regarding that.

Please beaware of this "fitna", contact reliable sources like SANHA, Jamia Ashrafia, Jamia Binori Town at their websites or see them one to one. But don't be Judge and issue fatwas of Haram sitting before computer screen.
Dr. Amjad's email is considered as Fitna and in Pakistan Mr. Akhlaq Ahmad is lending hand to spread this Fitna.
Guys please be aware. Ajinomoto Indonessia is halal as well, you can contact Majilis Ulama Indonesia who has confirmed it.

regards

@ Agrieved: You have raised a very serious issue. You have doubted Jamias authenticity and credibility of passing there verdict of true Islam. We all know that these Jamias have a complete grip on Islam and they are always in a better position to judge and evaluate. If eating Lay’s is haram….doubting the very fabric of our Islamic centres which impart religious knowledge to many is in what context right?

Another prestigious Jamia Uloom Islamia Allama Binori Town has verified that Lay’s is free of all animal meat fat and contains only vegetable fat. The Jamia is of the view that Lay’s uses E 635 as an ingredient which is made from the combination of two ingredients E 631 and E 627. It has elaborated that the basic ingredient E631 is derived from vegetable fat. The Jamia has further explained that Lay’s purchase E 635 from its flavor house IFF. The ingredient is provided to IFF by a renowned company Ajinomoto based in Thailand.

Jamia Binoria has stated in its report that if the ingredient E 635 is derived from vegetable fat and that Lay’s purchase it from known sources then there are no chances of animal meat fat neither in the ingredient E635 or any other.
Jamia Uloom Islamia Allama Binori Town is a renowned centre of Islam not only in Pakistan but all over the world. Jamia Binori is widely recognized as one of the most influential centres of Muslim ideology in the world. The Jamia imparts knowledge on each and every doctrine of Islam and so far has produced hundreds and thousands of Muslim scholars. These scholars continue to serve the Muslim world with their insightful knowledge pertaining to Islam.

How will you know doubt the fatwas given by two authentic Islamic sources? I question.
Please clear yourself first and try to be reasonable.

Regards,

@Agrieved

Lets get to the bottom of this....what are you really aggrieved about? Did you go for a job with PepsiCo and got turned down? or did they really hurt you in some other manner such that you cant forget.

Anyway on the subject of authenticity. So it would appear that the only certification you would accept is from IRAN. This is because you do not accept anything from Pakistani authorities because they are corrupt and from Arabs, because they cannot do research. Well Mr or Miss Agrieved (btw, you need to check how to spell aggrieved properly), Pakistani institutions may be corrupt but for you to doubt jamia Ashrafia and other similar Islamic organisations, is something. No doubt the fatwa on you will be issued by them soon enough, lol. Just like the iranians have the habit of issuing fatwas on people they do not like. With regards to the arabs, not my favourite bunch of people but thats another debate. However, I think you need to come up and start to live in the REAL current world yourself. It would appear that you have lagged behind in whats being going on in the arab world for the last 20 years or so. There is a reason why such major institutions as Yale, Harvard, Oxbridge etc are setting up camps in Dubai and other sultanates of the mid-east. Regardless, you will be in a small minority to say that food sold in the arab world cannot be trusted to be halaal. Most countries actually take lead from the arab world to decide whether a particular food is fit for consumption by a muslim. Try living away from your cosy self-contained world and see the world for what it is.

You also seem to dismiss the certification issued by organisations which are world renowned for their authenticity, namely the IFF and SANHA. Let me enlighten you about SANHA. This is an organisation based in South Africa to oversee the Halaal food debate/industry in South Africa. Go and research and you may just discover, and I can tell you from personal experience, that South African muslims are some of the most PURE followers of Islam you are ever likely to find, probably along with Indonesia. They practice their religion based on the teachings which are pure and from a time before all this Islamist fundu crap started. A typical example of expats living in a time warp, but modernised. They practice their religion the way it was supposed to be for themselves and not for show as you probably do like most pakistanis here. They do not get up from their sujdha and look for ways to screw the next person for a rupee. Rather the opposite. They practice their religion with the fear that on judgment day they have to answer to the almighty in contrast to people here who want to show to others that they do their namaaz and roza etc. So yes I will rather listen to what SANHA has to say and forget about all others.

So you doubt their authenticity in favour of Iran. Tell me then, why are PepsiCo selling their crisps/chips in Iran and why have not the iranian authorities shut them down or killed them for selling haraam food? Because you have not got a clue or an argument to back up your stance. At least a few people here have argued, but have had the conviction to back up their arguments, regardless of which side they argued for. You just seem to be one of those who has their head buried in the sand (Ostrich syndrome) and ignores all that goes around him. And the typical illustration of that are your recent posts where you have started to get personal about others and started to make assumptions for others. I'm sure you would be aware of the following statement, probably an expert on it: DO not Assume, as you will make an ASS of U and Me. Well forget about the me part and stick to the first four letters!!

Pakistani you might have enough mind to see whether someone may have checked their spellings for Agrieved before posting it repeatedly and posted it on their own will or not. Also, I was not talking about me but about the people I met that are still not using or selling Lays and the problem I saw was of Image associated with Pakistan's certificate.
Iran was just used as an example because some which I met, said that they can trust an Iranian, Malaysian and even Indonesian certificate and thats why I mentioned Iran.
And, I am here talking about making Lays popular at all levels again including the Layman who can hardly understand the authenticity of International institutes and simply call them Western dolls.
Jamia certificates are respected and accepted but then, as mentioned indirectly by many, where is the research? Jamia says that if E631 is from Halal source, then it is Halal, but the debate is of the source itself. So, as soon as the source gets recognized by a popular research institute (Like if any Jamia have research results conducted by their students confirming of E631 from Halal source, the problem will vanish itself in eye of Layman or People ignorant of credibility of Intl. institutes).
Doesn't matter how hard you try to justify your point, but when the sources you mentioned arn't getting trusted by people, they wont go for it.
So, why not go for using names of those countries certificates, which even Layman can accept easily, Iran was just an example because of their perception of being more stricter and independent in their researches with less western help(as clearly perceived in my discussions with a shopkeeper).
It can be a tactic for Lays to help themselves more easily, use one perception of people(Image associated with other countries certificates) to defeat their other (Halal-Haram)perception.

Dear Agrived:

People like you who dont want to accept anything...are reluctant and impatient in listening and reasoning, will never understand let alaone agree no mattter how many certificates and proofs are provided.

As in the case of lay's, everybody on this forum are witness that several proofs have been presented not on anybody's behalf or as a PAID FAVOUR many deem as. It has been done on ground of good will.

Kindly stop getting into stupid debates about Iran/Malaysia/Indonesia etc and try to think and see openly.

It is time that we all start thinking logically.

Zara, read my post again.
I was actually suggesting ways on how to agree Layman(a considerable portion of Pakistani population) into purchasing and selling Lays. So, read the post again and try to understand before leaping for response.

TO,
ALL FOOOOOLISH PEOPLE WHO R NOT AGREE.

JUST SEARCH THE NET THERE R HUAGE ATHENTIC DATA THAT TELLS US ABOUT THE "MENTIONED E CODES " MAY CONTAINS PIG FAT.

AND ALL Dr.S HAVE THE COMPLETE CONTACT CARD. IF U R NOT RELY ON WIKIPEDIA

Disodium inosinate (E631), chemical formula C10H11N2Na2O8P, is the disodium salt of inosinic acid. It is a food additive often found in instant noodles, potato chips, and a variety of other snacks. It is used as a flavor enhancer, in synergy with monosodium glutamate (also known as MSG; the sodium salt of glutamic acid) to provide the umami taste. It is mainly found in animals like pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.
pigs and fish.

ref WWW.WIKIPEDIA

WHAT ELSE U NEED?

IF its NOT TRUE. WHY LAYS ERASE THE CODE E631 ?

Exactly LOGIC. People have their reservations over this issue and all those Halal certificates seems to be not getting trusted by people.
And, that was the question on my mind too. Why Lays erased the E631? I think their Masala Flavor might still have the E631 but they got it erased from other flavors.
They should have educated people, If E631 is from some Plant rather than erasing it.

Agrieved,
You are continuously making people fool basis of your "I Think" approach, what should people do if you Think wrong. Look debate was only around Lays Masla and as you have confirmed that Lays is still printing E631 on packs. If it would be a real issue than Lays should erase it from Masala first. For your information, I had experienced some of Lays products like Kurkure, Cheetos made in March and No E631 is mentioned over their.
Give us a break now, and stop thinking like this.
Who advised you that Iran has Halal Certification Bodies? I know there is one in Indonesia MUI, Majilis Ulama Indonesia, who has certified Ajinomot Indonesia as halal. But you are already not believing that Ajinomoto Indonesia is halal. Then whats up.
Stop thinking like this, and as I mentioned in above post, don't issue fatwas.
regards

Osman, If you want break, then go away to some other side. And, I would say that, Rather than me, you don't have enough mind to THINK. Don't think, If you don't like to, I hardly care for LIKES OF YOU.
And get your mind in working order, we are talking of Lays here not Kurkure or Cheetos. And read my Post again with STABLE BRAIN(Which I doubt you may even have got), I was asking of some people whom I came across and it were they who were talking of Iran, Indo and Malay.
My post was more of on Marketing side(i.e., Mkaing everyone, even Layman, use and sell Lays, which they arn't selling here) and giving them certificates with the approval stamp of countries they want can what help Lays or Lays can educate people about E631 from Plant and not from Pig.
That wa swhat my post was about. So first read with STABLE MIND and then open your Beak.
And, one last thing, This forum is here to talk on and if you want break, then hop anywhere else coz I won't stop till the debates goes on or someone refers to me(especially pee headed people like you, who fails to read and understand my whole message).
Regards

And, once again for people like Osman.
The post above is clearly giving suggestions(rather than criticism) to Lays to make itself popular on all levels especially at illetrate people's level, who make up large part of Pakistani population. Its main purpose is to end the issue at all levels in Pakistan but some pee headed people like Osman, fails to understand the difference between Criticism and Suggestions.
..
And, Yes my question remains there as LOGIC said, I still would like to know Why Lays removed the E631 from their all flavors? Their Old packs in market still shows E631 but new ones doesn't shows that. WHY?

For Osman:
Oh I forgot to respond to FOOL part of your Post. I would say that when there are already created fools like you(with mediocre marketing skills), I really don't need to create one.
Or at least, Osman, If you can't understand a message, Why not ask its meaning and I can give you in easy words, Rather than blabbing in fool's way.

I agree with this post, But I came to know that Lays has stopped using pig fats now due to their dropping market value and they are trying their best to prove their innocence with TV and internet propaganda by giving interviews with actors or celebrities and on internet they have hired some people who comments on blogs like this for the good of Lays.

You people seem to be fighting personal wars here. I would suggest ignore the rest and just focus on the issue.

@Valentine: Lay's NEVER had any animal meat fat lest pig fat and so your comment or judgement of them having removed the ingredient name is bogus and completely out of question.

@agrieved: I agree that you think...but I disagree with your mentioning 'I think , I think' strategy. This is not some perosnal blog dear friend. It has more to do with serious debate and facts to present in favour of or against any raised issue including Lay's.

Lay's has provided several several proofs in this regard. It is open for all those who want to believe and understand.

@zara:
If someone gets personal, then we need to get personal too.
And, same message for you as for Osman, read my post carefully before leaping for response.
You agree with what I said but where have you seen me writing I think for several times?
Mostly people here is bringing up their "I think" response and how many times have you seen "I think" in my posts above?
I don't want to get personal, but If Osman wants to, then I can't help that. Look at the posts above, who got personal first Osman or Me?
And once again the same I leave for many people:
Kindly try to reply with open eyes and mind rather than going for pee headed responses like Osman did.
Regards

agrieved
You are turning too personal,
As i mentioned earlier, you are still continueing in creating doubts. The question you have asked is "Why Lays removed E631 from the packs?".
Do you have proofs that they have removed E631? Your question should be "Does Lays has E631 in any other product, if yes, whether they were printing previously and erased now?"
Why you are commenting on behalf of other people, its better to make a point on the basis of your own research. Did you reseach any of your satement? Most of your points are based on "I think" theory.
Look if want to check the credibility of some documents, better to contact them directly. e.g. I have contacted SANHA, Jamia Binori Town, Majilis Ulama Indonesia and found responses which mentioned in above posts. Now here onward I would request you to research first and then share your thoughts otherwise people get confused.
regards

@Osman.
Yes, I have still seen packs of "Lays Masala" on stalls in here, on which E631 is mentioned and I don't need to lie on that just for the proving my point here.
I really wanted to know too(like LOGIC) that why they removed E631 from their packs, If it was Halal? Was that just for the purpose of avoiding the sales fall? Why didn't they educated people of that E631 was from a plant rather than pig?
..
Reason Why I want to know?
Because, These are the questions that are on many people with whom I live and on this basis they have formed strong assumption that Lays is Haram and I really want answers to these questions so that I can make these things clear in the minds of people around me so that they can start using and selling Lays too. But, to begin with them I need to have convincing answers myself.
Can you provide me the above answers? If Yes, that would vbe
..
And, where can you see "I THINK" theory in all above?

@ Osman.
Osman here is the link that shows the logo of Lays Masala Pack using E631. Note that apart from E631, there is also address Plot No. 413, Sundar Industrial Estate, Raiwand Road, Lahore.
This shows that this pack was from Pakistan.And, as mentioned in following link, even IFF(International Flavor and Fragrances) website didn't had any E631 information at their website.
Have a look at following link too and read it especially at last:
......
http://abaidz.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/lays-masala-potato-chips-made-from-haram-pig-oil-by-pepsi/

@ Osman.
Now, in the light of above link, can you answer(without assuming that E631 was never part of Lays) that:
Why they removed E631 from their packs, If it was Halal? Was that just for the purpose of avoiding the sales fall? Why didn't they educated people of that E631 was from a plant rather than pig-The same Ads in which Junaid was preaching about Lays, They could have given him dialogue telling people that E631 was from a plant.

@ Osman.
Your satisfactory answers matters a lot because they wont be just for me but for many who are concerned about it and will help me in removing these reservances from many peopel who are unable to use online forums to clear their doubts.

Agreived,
Thanks for your moderate approach this time. I mentioned in above post that I have seen Lays flavours other than masala, those packs were manufactured in March and April and even then E631 was not mentioned. I have not seen any one referring E631 to any other flavor except masala.Also note that if Lays wanted to get rid of E631 issue then why they are still printing it on masala flavor.

Why IFF is not mentioning E631 on their website?
Answer: As Lays communicated in their documents that E631 is produced by Ajinomoto Thailand (please see Ajinomoto Website, they are manufacturing brand I plus G, means inosinate and guanlate E627 and E631) and providing to IFF. Where IFF is using E631 as an ingredient in preparation of masala flavor. Lays has provided halal certificate of masala flavor which means all ingredients being used in it are halal. And above to it Lays presented e631 (I plus G) halal certificate.
Hope situation would be clear a bit. Please let me know if you have questions, I would try to responsd on the basis of my knowledge.
Have a good weekend.

Last but not least, I am talking about Lays produced in Sundar Lahore

Before giving any statement plz read the documents "Lays Pakistan Statement" and "certification of Halal of Lays products" which can be downloade from the following web page

http://www.food-info.net/uk/e/e631.htm

Dear All,

Pepsi Lay's is running a public service message and guess who is the spokes person in that? Its none other than the one who has changed himself from a singer to a practicing Muslim obviously no intro is required i.e. Junaid Jamshed.

He is least likely to do something just for fame or money. So those out there who ( unfortunately) blame all the muftis, ulmas etc for their statements, what will they say about his appearance and his endorsing consuming Lay's?

So open your eyes and try to think rationally...why will so many people lie or promote false?

Think!

Regards,

salam,if u didnt watch that add of lays you must see it.junaid jamshed is in that add and he is denying this lie and he is eating it.junaid jamshed belongs to a (duaband hilqa fikhar) and i trust him.

lays is Haram Haram .. Junaid JamShed kay add aany say Wo Halal nai hostakaaaa ....

Haram .1000%

http://www.itdunya.com/showthread.php?p=844585

Check This For the Truth ..

Junaid Jamsheed is not Angle . when make ads they lays will be Halal ...

kisi be Bandy kay Ads deny say koi cheez kia Halaaaal hosaki hay ..

http://www.itdunya.com/showthread.php?p=844585

Pepsi and Coca Cola Contains PORK (PIG) extracts - PROVEN!!
Shocking / Bad News :
Pepsi and Coca Cola contains extract from Pork (Pig)
Most of the people avoid Pepsi and Coca-Cola for various reasons:-
because of harmful chemical contents such as excessive carbonates, etc.
Now there is yet another reason which is more dangerous. The scientific and medical research says that drinking Pepsi & Cola leads to cancer because the key element is taken from Pigs sausage.
The pig is the only animal that eats dirt, dung and urine, which makes lethal and deadly fabric polluted germs and microbes.
According to a report published in Jordanian magazine, the Head of Delhi University Science and Technology , Dr. Mangoshada scientifically proved that the key element in Pepsi and Cola contains extract from the intestines of Pig which causes cancer and other deadly diseases.
The Indian university conducted tests on the impact of drinking Pepsi and Coca Cola which proved that drinking them lead to more rapid heart rate and low pressure.
Also drinking 6 bottles of Pepsi or Cola at a time causes instant death. It also contains chemicals such as carbonic and phosphoric acids, citric acid which harms teeth and causes bone fragility. Bones kept in the Cup of Pepsi melts during the week knowing that the bones of the dead remain in the grave for thirty years.
Research itself confirmed that the calcium dissolved in Pepsi and it weakens the bladder, kidneys, kills the pancreatic, leads to diabetes and infectious diseases.
Pepsi or Coca-Cola lovers, you have nothing to worry as it is not the only drinks available on this earth, as we have other healthy alternatives such as natural fruit juices, canned coconut water, flavoured milks, buttermilk etc., all of them are conveniently available even in the small stores.
PLEASE PASS THIS MESSAGE TO ALL UR FRIENDS & CONTACTS

Aslam Khan,
You gave your fatwa that lays is Haram, do you have any proofs except crap email of Dr. Amjad or wikipedia reference where everybody can edit. I dislike when people give reference of Wikipedia who published blasphemous cartons of Prophet Muhammad SAW.
Lays Pakistan is halal, please see halal logo on the pack.
Regards

@Kinza: Your comment was anything but logical. It seemed as if you were giving fatwas and had full control on it. We need logics, reasons and authentic sources to believe in which you failed to provide.

Can you please let us all know where exactly do your mentioned “researches” and “medical procedures” appear?

You have included “Most of the people”, “According to a report published in Jordanian magazine”, “The Indian university conducted tests”, “Research itself confirmed”, etc.

Please see for yourself that no where have you mentioned any authentic source and thus the credibility of your information presented is at stake.

The main thing to be mentioned here is that you have clearly deviated from the topic. We are talking about Lay’s and the controversy which surrounds it. You however have moved on to a complete different track. Having said that, I won’t comment on your post. Neither I think it will be any use to counter it or support seeing the very deviation.

Had it been about our related topic going on, I would have provided the respected readers of this blog with authentic information regarding the Lay’s truth.

Hope you at least try resonating with the topic next time.

Miss. Zara i think u r woorried about leaving LAYS chipss...hhahahahheehhhehehehehehahahhhhhheehehhhhehehehehehehehe

kiun ek chips k Lea apna reLigiOn kharb kar rhe hOO ... ek chips hi to haii nhe kahoo gii to mar nhe jaOO gii . ..

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kinza?? What exactly have you been smoking these days? Now Coke and Pepsi contain Pig fats? I'm sure in no time, every known Western brand will end up containing pig fats.So what are we looking at here? Maybe next time you will discover through another Indian scientist that Intel processors will also be made using Pig fats........... gime a Kit Kat break (come to think of it, that may as well have some pork in it too)

And just for the record to quote you "Also drinking 6 bottles of Pepsi or Cola at a time causes instant death." My question is, Which moron in your lifetime have you met that drank up 6 bottles of Coke or Pepsi at a time? LoL:) Kinza, get a life!!!

....and Kinza, you are right!! If Zara doesn't eat Lays chips, she wont die; In fact, there are many things she may or may not do which will not determine the time she has to meet her Creator. But in that time, she has a choice and a great life NOT governed by your whimsical fancies and proclaimations that compel her to act stupid.
So, stop what you are doing - Get your facts and logic in place before going on a public forum talking nonsense and making a fool of yourself.

I'm surprised that there are so many followers of elusive Dr Amjad's research that I am they have singled out Lays chips for criticism. Dr Amjad also mentioned many other products as listed below. Why dont people such as Kinza take up the struggle against all other items listed. Probably because as he or she mentions to Zara, if they do then they will die as there will be nothing left for them to eat or drink or to use for any purpose. Dr Amjad is a scam guys...wake up and smell the coffee that probably contains pig fat too ;-).

Research by Dr Amjad Khan (Medical Research Institute, United States) has proved that many products of multinational firms including, but not limited to -

TOOTH PASTE,
SHAVING CREAM
CHEWING GUM,
CHOCOLATE,
SWEETS,
BISCUITS,
CORN FLAKES, TOFFEES,
CANNED FOODS,
FRUIT TINS,

Who ever started this crap,get a friggin' life.Pork fat won't kill you,but the taliban pigs would.Channel your pent up anger against these brutes rather than an employment providing organization.

PEACE

Recently the Famous Scholar Mufti Muneeb ur Rehman also confirmed that LAYS CHIPS ARE HARAM

This is absolute bullcrap. There is no pig fat in Lays products. Its all a sochi samjhi scheme to defame the company who made this snack affordable. I wouldnt be surprised if Triple-em or some other local brand be behind this defamation; obviously they are losing business fast to Lays.

Dont waste time in such sansani scandals which are loved and ferverously pursued by us. This also might be another ploy by the fundos.

Cheers
IH

It is not good. Keep away

The Aliens...it's the gdodamnedfooking aliens.....

Mudasser Amin.I hear this rumour was started by the Xhosa tribe in South Africa.

All of my respectable friends whether you are agree or not I am agree with renowned scholars fatwa.

Thanks

:@ Dont eat it if you dont want to and dream for your 72 virgins, its a free world...
A muslim is completely aware of what to eat and what not to, and even if he eats or does something, intentionally or unintenionally, which is prohibitted, thats on him.
Whats the point? Trying to prove yourself as a better Muslim, trying to make a Muslim out of a Muslim or you have taken the responsibility of whole UMMAH?
SHIT HEADS!

@ Jude Allen :

So MR.ALLEN as u r non-muslim u dun know about da importance of HALAL n HARAM...
just do n enjOy LAYS chips..... dun waste ur time here...

U cannOt change HARAM thing to HALAL..

n MIss.Zara if it is HALAL then Y our schoLars are not agreed wid them(PEPSI CO.), n not giving any FATWA regarding them.........

u r human beings n as well as muslims just think about itt.... n if it is HARAM then how will u answer ALLAH about it......

Oh scholars... ya??, our scholars??... do they know what lays is? LOL
scholars my foot...!!!

Let them eat biryani to death and let them bring more complications, conflicts and confusions in religion and let us enjoy lays. Please lay off loosers!

Kinza I'm not wasting my time as much as you are - you see, this is a consumer forum for everyone (so in case you want to impose a fatwa on me) you can't really stop me from giving my feedback. Secondly, there is NO PROVEN & DOCUMENTED fact sheet or MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that confirms the halal / haram issues of Lays.

You are not a scientist for sure - you are just a lay person (pun intended there!! LoL) So, what kind of surety can YOU Ms. Kinza possibly have? We would all like to know. Please ...Start!!!!